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MG MGF Technical - Powerflex Bushes

OK in a few weeks I have a number of dramatic events to undergo in my 1996 1.8i F and I need to tie down the handling. The ZT260's superb handling makes the old car feel very sloppy .

SO gentlemen which suspension bushes should I replace first on the old girl?

I already have compliance bushes in the rear, bit everything else is bog standard. I want sharper...everything!

I would appreciate your opinions
Neil

I replaced the damper bushes with the MS Poly ones and it tightened things up a bit plus I dont have to worry about them perishing.

I also put slightly bigger washers on the bottom end of the damper to eliminate the chance of the damper coming away from the bush!
Bob Millar

Mike's are Powerflex aren't they? Neil, I think that these are the ones to use: they have stainless steel inserts, whereas the Superflex ones are mild steel.

Stainless steel might just be a USP, but it should last longer!
Rob Bell

Yeah Rob but which ONES are THE ones to replace?

The whole lot inner and outer everything shocks etc( looks trickey!) or just selected ones that give the best benefit?

£171 for a full set of rears is a lot particulalry when I probably wont fit them all!! which ones make the most difference to handling?
Rob

Neil/Rob, you're being a bit schizophrenic there!

At 8 years old, I would have thought that it was time to replace all the bushes. Particularly if you are going to drive the car with gusto (which I have no doubt that you will).

I still have a set of poly upper suspension bushes if anyone wants them. Fined me at Silverstone on the Saturday.

Ralph
ps What is USP?
Ralph

Ralph,

A USP is an “Unique Selling Point”.

I’d be interested in your upper bushes, I have to do the lower ones and its probably an idea to do them all if it’s not too expensive.

Are they easy to fit?

I am at Silverstone on Saturday; I’ll send you an e-mail with a mobile number it you want to hook up.

Cheers, Russ.
Russ Mellor

Rob,

Superflex use ss, Polybush do not and no idea about Powerflex.

Also with Superflex they are colour coded for Shore.

Paul
Paul

Hi Neil,

let me know the results from your bushes im thinking of doing the same once i've got over the shock of my cam belt failure. I fitted poly bushes to my old triumph which worked a treat....but then had squeaks over bumps. Also may need to 4 wheel track after fitting.

don
D Kimberley

Russ, I'm one of those strange people that haven't got a mobile phone. Call me a Luddite if you like, but I don't see the need to be contactable 24-7. Silverstone seems to be the one occasion that I do need a mobile (I've also got to somehow find Tim Highman on Saturday - but that's another story).

The reason I didn't fit them was that I did not have a metric spanner to fit the nuts on the upper suspension. They are very easy to fit, since they are in 2 pieces, provided you have the right spanner...

Ralph
Ralph

>>
Yeah Rob but which ONES are THE ones to replace?
The whole lot inner and outer everything shocks etc( looks trickey!) or just selected ones that give the best benefit?
<<

Rob, a very insightful question! The short answer, as Ralph suggests, is all of them - our cars are starting to get on a bit, and all those original bushes are going to be somewhat baggy.

The worst culprit seem to be the damper bushes (they are certainly amongst the most visible). Mike Satur has PU replacements for these. Definitely worth doing - as Tim Woolcott did - http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/chassis_and_handling/shock_bush_replacement.htm

But the subframe bushes and wishbone bushes also have profound impact upon how the car handles. I'd personally change the subframe bushes to Trophy/TF spec (they're alloy rather than rubber) - and use PU bushes elsewhere.

Regarding longevity of the PU bushes, unfortunately, I am not in a position to comment :o/
Rob Bell

Searching the archive, it would appear that the bushes that make the biggest difference are:

1) Polyurethane shocker bush kit, complete set of top and bottom bushes to fit all four shockers for only £37.00 plus vat (MS)
2) REAR OUTER TCA/TIE BAR BUSH 2 PER CAR. PFR42-219 @£19.95 + VAT each (MS)
3) REAR COMPLIANCE SPACE BUSH WASHER KIT, £8.51 plus vat (B&G)

My question is do you fit both the Rear outer TCA/Tie bar bush AND the Compliance washers or is it an either or thing?

PS: anybody got spares ones they want to sell off?

Cheers
Steve
Steve Ratledge

>> My question is do you fit both the Rear outer TCA/Tie bar bush AND the Compliance washers or is it an either or thing?

From what I remember on Rob's site it's either or.

So are PU bushes an easy DIY job. I can't imagine that subframe mounts are going to be straightforward. =S
Phil Brindley - Leicester

Definitely either or chaps. See http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/upgrading_bushes.htm

The damper and tie bar bushes are both DIY-able - as TimW has ably shown :o)

Subframe bushes are a little harder - especially the rear apparently - you need to think about dropping the whole subframe :o(

The wishbone bushes look to be a bit of a mare. I think I'd let someone else burn out the old bushes for me! ;o)
Rob Bell

>PS: anybody got spares ones they want to sell off?
As mentioned above, I have a set of PU upper shock bushes that I don't need. Russ failed to find me, and I failed to find him, at Silverstone. So, they are still up for grabs.

Ralph
Ralph

If there any difference between the uppers and the lowers? i.e. can I use your set of upper shock bushes to replace my rear upper and lowers?
Steve Ratledge

Sorry Steve, they're different. :o(
Rob Bell

... very different. The F shockers have a stud at one end and a hoop at the other. A bit of ASCII art...


I
I
-----
I I
I I
I I
I I
I I
I I
-----
O

The top bush is in two parts - one bit goes below the bulkhead, the other above. The bottom bush is a single piece of rubber/elastomer with a metal tube through the middle.

Ralph
Ralph

Okay, so this site doesn't work with ASCII art. It strips out white space and changes the font to proportional. Oh, well.

Do embedded HTML tags work?

Ralph
Ralph

>> Do embedded HTML tags work? <<

Nope. Sorry Ralph :o(
Rob Bell

but (and)nbsp (non breakable space) does work
                 look
Will Munns

but obviously, you need to put a space between the last (and)nbsp and your first character
Will Munns

I have a set of MS shocker bushes for sale. Never used as I changed the shocks instead ...

Gaz
Gaz R

I am checking mine this weekend. If they are as bad as I expect I will gladly take them off your hands Gaz.
Steve Ratledge

To throw a spanner in the works I had it on good authority (some1 who prepares racing MGF's) that bushes won't make as much difference as sending the car to someone to properly sort out the hydragas.

He says that PU bushes are a waste of time and that the time and money should be spent on pumping and tweaking the hydagas system and fitting rear compliance washers.
anon

Quite a few of us already have the compliance washers and are looking to take up the slack that is left after a few years wear and tear. It is a bit different to preparing race cars as the OEM bushes are probably replaced regularly and therefore don't require poly replacements.

So if the shocker bushes are replaced, does the car need a tracking re-set, or should it be ok without.

Phil Brindley - Leicester

I'm not sure why 'anon' has posted anonymously because what is said is absolutely correct: there are probably more advantages to be had by working the dampers and hydragas suspension than by playing with the bushes.

However, bushes get old: they perish, they sag and they get compressed. On older MGFs, they'll actually need replacing.

So when you come to replace the bushes what do you replace them with? Given that the same costs will be involved replacing rubber with PU as it is to renew rubber with new rubber, why not go with stiffer PU bushes? They ought to last longer and give superior geometry control (admittedly at the expense of NVH) :o)
Rob Bell

>> NVH

?

Pardon my ignorance but what does that stand for?

Phil Brindley - Leicester

Noise Vibration Harshness IIRC Phil :o)
Rob Bell

I have the rear compliance washers

S0 what needs doing to the hydrogas which is so succesful?

Neil

Thanks Rob.

So let me get this straight. I have the compliance washers fitted and the lowering knuckles of the Techspeed variety. Does anyone know if I would be able to buy the Bilstein dampers from Techspeed and fit them myself? If so would it be worth fitting PU bushes at the same time and would these changes require a re-track? Also would this give Neil the sharper handling he requires?
Phil Brindley - Leicester

Hi Phil,

>>Does anyone know if I would be able to buy the Bilstein dampers from Techspeed and fit them myself?

This is what Tim Woolcott did. Drop him an email. Personally, I'd just get TS to do it for you - retrack and all. The labour is not great, their rates are good value and they'll test the result to be sure all is well.

They'll make a significant difference to handling for you and Neil :-)
Dave Livingstone

Phil, exactly as Dave says -- so in brief the answer to your questions are yes, yes and yes :o) LOL
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 20/07/2004 and 02/08/2004

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