MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGF Technical - Supension & Supercharge

I really enjoyed going round Silverstone on 28th March but I'm considering a few changes to my TF160 and I was curious if you guys have any thoughts.

1). Suspension - change the dampers to the Handling & Comfort set up by Bilstein.

2). Supercharge (or Turbo). I called Turbo Technics yesterday to find out what they have on offer. Apparently I'm not the only one thinking about this - there are some 4 or 5 other people so own up! I had a brief chat with a gentleman (whose name I forget) and his thought that a Turbo might be the slightly more preferable option. I thought that the need is for lower end grunt rather than a buzzier unit with power being fully developed at around 7,000 rpm. I'm flexible whatever option but there are some main worries. a). Reliability, b). Servicing, c). Cost

Gents (and ladies) what are your thoughts?
David

1. I would want to test drive a TF with the same sized wheels and make of tyres before I parted with the £500 plus fitting, it would have to be a big improvement for that amount.

2. I don’t know too much about forced induction on the F/TF but from what I can gather if done properly its likely to be very expensive and not the quick fix that it may first seem.
C Tideswell

Hi David,

Yep, Silverstone GP circuit is quite an experience isn't it, and rest assured you're not the only one who came away from there with a few 'mods' in mind ;o)

The Trophy/TF160 engine is already getting close to the maximums for some of the components, so any significant hike in power production does necessitate major reworking AKA high cost. For the F or TF I think most people would favour the supercharger route for its constant thrust rather than a turbo and its inherent nature - not ideally suited to a mid-engined car both in on-the-limit driving terms and the practicalities of getting rid of all that heat...

No personal experience of the TF suspension kit, but Tech-Speed's Bilstein setup seems second to none so worth giving them a call, or maybe even a visit for a demo.
Mike Hankin

Going for Bilstein springs and dampers would be, IMO, a superb option. We know that VHS have been working on a new kit with Bilstein to develop a suitable damper set up, and the X-Power springs are probably the ones to go for. Might be worth chatting to Alan about your needs and ideas.

Regarding Turbo Technics - I don't think I'm on that list, but I do just happent to have a second hand supercharger sitting in my garage, complete with intercooler etc :o)

Having that at Silverstone would have been 'nice' ;o)

The TF160 already has pretty good crank bearings - but you probably wouldn't want to increase engine speeds significantly - and bearing life is sure to be reduced with power exceeding 180bhp. But, that said, there are a good number of 215-240 bhp supercharger conversions running effectively standard bottom ends reliably over good mileages that include a healthy diet of track days (usually in Elises though!) - so you're probably okay.

What you will need are new pistons and rods - forged rather than cast, and to achieve a lower compression ratio required for forced induction. This is now part of the Supercharger kit.

You might want to consider some cylinder head work whilst you've got the engine apart. The VVC cylinder head is already an excellent casting, but does benefit from tidying up. And if you are thinking about supercharging, you should, perhaps, consider larger exhaust valves... I know that Dave Andrews has had experience with supercharged K-series heads, so I'd recommend you chat with him.

lots more to think about (I've been doing a lot of thinking!!! Or is it daydreaming...? Anyway...) but regarding the turbo versus supercharger.

I'd suggest supercharger. It's an off-the-shelf kit (therefore will work out cheaper), it runs cooler (no messing around with exhaust manifolds), and it all fits very neatly inside the engine bay...

Plus it gives you instant low-end slugs of torque - probably exactly what you're after :o)
Rob Bell

Hi David,

Glad that you enjoyed Silverstone :-)

About the Damper/Springs swop for a TF. I just happened to take a call from Wayne at VHS and he is looking for a guinea pig for their new offering in this area. If you are intersted then please let me know and I'll put you two in touch with each other.
Dave Livingstone

Dave, where are they based? If its midlands-ish I could be interetsed.
Steve White

They are in Brum Steve

Stu
Stu Dickens

Gents - thanks for your comments, I didn't expect this was going to be an easy or straight forward proposition. Some fairly careful thought is needed!

To be honest, I'm sold on the suspension as the road ride on my 02 TF is the "sports" kit and it drives me potty at times. I'm not sure if it is advisable to change the springs as I understand they account for approx 15% of the overall effect. I did try the X-Power springs but they reduced the ride height - speed bumps became an issue.

I must confess to being drawn more towards a supercharger as I'd prefer more urge than rev! I'd also want to get it done in one hit but realiability can't be compromised. After all, what's the point of going on a Track day and blowing up after a couple of laps. How do you explain that to SWMBO?!?

Dave, thanks for the idea but as I live in Surrey it would be a bit of a long trek - Steve is a little closer - got to be quick on this board :) Steve, I thought your was a 2005 model anyway??? Rob - thanks, after the Easter break I'll try and talk with the guys you suggest and post back. MGE arrived yesterday and there was a report on the KV6 but I still think I'd prefer the supercharger. Time to think!
David

David, yes mine is a 2005 car and currently has X-Power springs fitted as I found the 2005 spec springs a bit too soft allwing too much body roll for my liking.
The dampers are the same on earlier TFs though, so there is still plenty of room for improvement IMHO.
Steve White

David I recently changed my suspension for a Leda set up with adjustable dampers and Eibach springs and I'm very pleased with the results. Although the kit was expensive at £850 inc springs, the improvment to the ride and handling in my mind are more than worth it.

Like yourself I began to tire of the OEM ride and looked for alternatives. At the time the Bilstien kit wasn't available so I tried the XPower springs which had a rep for improving the ride. I found the ride with those springs was unbearably hard.I also didn't like the handling. The rear springs are progressive and I found it difficult to judge how the springs would compress in any given corner. My Leda springs are linear so they compress evenly. I have to say the handling on the Leda setup is phenomenal!

Best part though is the ride. The Leda setup can really take a pothole in its stride without any drama at all. Living in London this is everything to me. The toweyes can still be a problem though and sometime scrape over high road bumps and I might raise the platform a touch to compensate. At the moment I have the ride height between XPspring and sports pack 1 height.

If it were me I would change the suspension before I did anything else as this will make the car more enjoyable to drive due to the improved handling and ride.

The Bilstien dampers sound very promising and look really well built as well. From the feedback I got from VHS they are designed to work with the OEM springs. Although I wonder wether VHS may do some tinkering with the spring rates. I dropped the rear rates by 50lbs on my setup which seems to work well.

One thing is for sure I would be surprised if Bilstein dampers would do much to improve the Xsprings ride! Interestingly, when I spoke to Andy at VHS he had never heard of the Xpower springs so obviously the VHS team were not involved in their design.

Andy also informed me at the time they were developing them that they intended to offer three ride height versions I wonder wether this will still be the case. I understand that Mike Satur is also developing a Spax setup as we speak. Looks like there may soon be a few alternatives out there soon.
Tony L

<I understand that Mike Satur is also developing a Spax setup as we speak. Looks like there may soon be a few alternatives out there soon. >
Tony this is true, I have the dampers (Spax) available after some 10 months testing and have just finished testing on a 2005 car. The x-power springs are not suitable(IMO) and softer spring rating with an adjustable damper has proven to work really well to the point that I would say it is an improvement over the hydrogas ride!! I have yet to put the springs into production but this is not far away.Total package around £500 plus fitting.
Mike

£500 is a very useful saving over the Leda set up - will be interesting to find out how all these kits compare! :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 12/04/2006 and 14/04/2006

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGF Technical BBS now