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MG MGF Technical - This could affect your TF!

Thought I'd re- submit this thread as it potentially affects EVERY MG TF.Originally had a knocking noise from front LH wheel, although Swindon Automobiles thought I had 'something loose behind my dash and it'll have to come out', another more mechanically minded (adept?) dealers agreed that I had a problem with my suspension (well done to Chippenham Autos). Turns out I had a bent sub-frame on my '02 TF 160. Replaced under warranty, it took THREE (3) brand new sub-frames from MGR before my new dealers were sent one that fitted. Turns out they are being manufactured incorrectly. My advice if you want it, get yours checked ASAP.
Incidentally, it's a contractor making these things, NOT MGR.
Got my car back last week, handles and doesn't knock anymore.
Timmeh

I wonder if something like this would explain the problem I have with my '02 TF 160, which has differing suspension hights on the front left and right hand sides? Despite fiddling with the suspension elements, the dealer never managed to fix it fully (still 5mm higher on the right hand side... :-( )

Per
Per

Are the same maniacs manufacturing the REAR sub-frame?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards
H.R. Bridge

The rear is the same press tooling as the front. Just swapped and some different brackets added.

And this all since the Metro twenty?? or what years ago.

btw. I doubt any MGF/TF part is NOT manufactured by contractors.
;)

Cheers
Dieter
Dieter K.

If MGR are aware of the sub-frames being made incorrectly, why is there no re-call??? Regards
H.R. Bridge

Timmeh,
Nothing to do with bent TF subframes but can you let me have the address of Swindon Automobiles, they were the supplying dealer of my F.
Many thanks,
Robert
R J Hemphill

My guess is that this subframe, which I believe is essentially unchanged compared to the subframe used on the F, is manufactured with rather large tolerances (sometimes too large, as in Timmeh's and my cases...). This is probably because it dates back to the days of the humble Metro. On that car and on the F, the precise position of the suspension pick-up points was probably not considered too important since the ride hight of the hydragas suspension could be adjusted easily with a pump. However, on the TF with its steel springs, no such "continuous" adjustment of the ride hight is possible and a correct right hight is dependent on the precise location of the suspension pick-up points, which the old subframe does not necessarily provide, if you are unlucky with the tolerances... :-(

I suppose that MGR know full well about this potential problem but that they agree to replace a subframe only if the problem is so bad that knocking sounds are heard, as in Timmeh's case.

Oh well... I hope Mike Satur's adjustable suspension system will be available soon... Any news Mike? ;-)

Per
Per

Just spoken to main dealer "never heard of that, it's a new one on me". Perhaps we'll have to wait for Rob, Deiter, Will & co. to come up with the solution, save MGR a lot of time & trouble won't it!!! Regards
H.R. Bridge

Tim, can you describe the knock in more detail? My F has developed something similar: sounds like metal panels knocking one another that is best heard over severely rutted road surfaces - I'm wondering if it is the bonnet latch or something more serious?
Rob Bell

Rob,

Isn't it so that the F's subframes are mounted to the chassis through rubber bushings (whereas the subframes on the TF (and Trophy?) are solidly mounted)? If so, I could imagine that the bushes on an early F like yours (which also gets raced a lot) would be pretty shot after 7 or 8 years.

Just a thought...

Per
Per

Rob H, will e-mail address to you.

Rob B, sound occured on similar road surfaces, sounded just like metal panels knocking together or when you push a bolt through a hole in a panel and scrape the threads- only 1 or 2 knocks mind, not like 'running a stick' along a fence.

If you jack the front of the car up and take the wheel off, you can see the black painted sub- frame. There is a hole roughly mid way up the visible part, and behind it some threads are visible. Mine were off set like a 'half eclipse' if that makes sense. Mechanics at Chippenham checked other TFs and noticed they were SIMILAR, not the same. They've e-mailed photos to MGR tech dept.

HR Bridge, my dealer said the same until they'd seen 3 different sub- frames!

Per, what are the chances of MGR owning up based on their HGF track record? Cynical I know!! I also had differing ride heights prior to this...

I really hope I haven't started a mass panic out there, but I did want to share my experiences with the rest of us. I'm a firm believer in consumer solidarity!!
Timmeh

It's all becoming clear now: MGR had to turn the F into the TF while keeping costs at a minimum (I remember seing a budget figure of around £30 million in some trade paper). This of course implied that they had to cut some corners, one of which being to keep a subframe which was never manufactured to tolerances tight enough for a car with non adjustable steel springs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critisizing them for doing this, since the TF is a great car in many respects! But what is unacceptable is the fact that they don't diligently and speedily replace the subframe on a car like mine which clearly suffers from big ride height differences from side to side.

Maybe if all TF owners out there went to measure their ride heights on both sides, and then marched in to their dealers to insist on a repacement subframe, MGR would do the right thing and own up. I wouldn't hold my breath though...

Per

P.S: For those who want to check their TFs, the correct heights measured from the center of the wheel to the edge of the wing are the following: front suspension (standard) 358mm; rear suspension (standard) 353mm; front suspension (SP1) 348mm; rear suspension (SP1) 343mm.
Per

The variable ride height could be attributed to the springs, these do not have a ground flat mating face and subsequently do not have a full bearing on the spring platform. This will eccentrically load the spring and cause noises as the spring squirms about. The top arm has a needle roller bearing that requires more frequent greasing, imo, and if dry will transfer the noise into the car.Any discrepencies can easily be checked with alignment equipment before resorting to changing subframes.HTH.
Mike.
mike

>> Isn't it so that the F's subframes are mounted to the chassis through rubber bushings (whereas the subframes on the TF (and Trophy?) are solidly mounted)? If so, I could imagine that the bushes on an early F like yours (which also gets raced a lot) would be pretty shot after 7 or 8 years. <<

Per, you could well be right. But equally, I'm a little worried about the subframe, as it did get quite a hit at Goodwood when I took out a cone that was more substantial than it looked. I think that this needs to get investigated.

BTW, you are quite right - the Trophy uses solid subframe mounts. I think that I have the part numbers stashed away somewhere, I'll have a look...
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 31/01/2004 and 03/02/2004

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