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MG MGF Technical - Urgent help now needed !!

I started a thread yesterday about the strange noises my 1997 VVC had started to make.
Jumped in it today to tootle off to work after deciding it was the exhaust and i now have a very horrible loud grinding noise all the time.
Im inthe middle of taking off the panel to have a look in the meantime anyone got any clues. Would be much appreciated as im panicking now. Its sounding horribly like its coming from the top of the engine or by the smaller cambelt. My gut instinct having worked on various cars for years is it sounds like the camshaft is going to snap... heard a similar noise years ago on something .
I did the cambelt change myself btw including the water pump and tensioner and has worked perfectly well since although i was a bit concerned as it was the most tight spaced engine i have worked on.
This was done 10k miles ago so if its been ok since i cant think its that.

Has anyone got any clues while i start stripping it down.

Thanks
Emma x
emma nicholson

Emma, I would have to suspect the common culprit - the cam retaining bolt. These can and do fail on VVCs. I guess further investigation should reveal the reality faily quickly!
Rob Bell

Ok i have got the cam covers off. All belts seem to be normal and the cambolt is still in place and seems to be tight. Basically everything looks as it should do.

I am iffy now but im really going to have to start it up again to try and diagnose this, i know its a good sign it was still actually running and i dint want to cause any more damage to whatever it is thats wrong but im really at a loss now whats wrong!!

Emma x
emma nicholson

I'd probably replace the bolts just to be on the safe side: a sheared bolt (and they can shear) is not something that is worth contemplating. :o(

Having said that, if all appears well, and there is still that noise, then clearly the culprit lies else where.

With the covers off, it may be worth running the engine and seeing whether you can isolate the noise: could it be the water pump? Seems to be the wrong place though?
Rob Bell

try turning the crank by socket and bar before trying starting it.
Will Munns

May sound stupid but is there a spark plug loose?

There have been a couple of reports here some years ago of a loose spark plug causing similar noises. It is quite easy to strip the threads of the head if you overtighten a plug.

Spyros
Spyros Papageorghiou

Well im totally lost now, started it and the nasty noise has gone although the strange whiney noise from yesterday is still there when your driving. I am racking my brains here now and am a bit stumped! Have never actually paid for anyone to work on any of my cars ( female pride thing lol) so i really want to get to the bottom of it myself. Just want to get straight about this cam bolt thing that its ok. I had a good look and wiggle about and it seems perfect.
So only thing i can think of now is perhaps gearbox? When i went to start it i have a phobia about cars being left in gear so i went and waggled gearstick around to check it was in neutral as i usually do, so maybe it something to do with that. I shall refill the gearbox with oil tomorrow and see what that brings me.
Thanks for all your help so far guys i do appreciate it

Emma x
emma nicholson

The car is making strange noises and you do not know what is causing it and no one here seems to be able to offer enlightenment.

If you have not got the knowledge to fix it yourself, take it to someone who can. Forget "female pride" and think rationally. In my exeperience cars are not able to self repair. The longer you let it make strange noises the great the chance of a big hit in the wallet when you are forced to take it to a garage.

Cheers

Patrick

PS Waggling the gear stick to ensure it is not in gear before starting is unlikely to damage the gearbox!
PA Beet

>> strange whiney noise <<

So difficult to diagnose a noise over the internet like this - but I wonder what kind of whiney noise? Cam belts that are too tight can whine - they have a bit of a warble about them, if you know what I mean.

Again, water pumps can make noise just prior to failure.

Any localising features of the noise Emma?
Rob Bell

Just so there is no confusion as to my abilities here: I have worked on cars since i could walk, my father ran a garage and since i was the only child and i was supposed to be a boy my father treated me as one. I stripped down my first engine at the age of 9. At 17 i did a supercharge conversion on my metro's A series engine. I was working with him in my spare time until his death 2 years ago I am in no way a numpty that possibly thinks that " waggling the gearstick could damage it" Nor could hangimg my handbag on it i guess!!!!! What i meant was there may possibly be a probelem with the gear selection/leyshaft which by my "Waggling it" has moved it. I am simply working on a process of elimination here While i dont in any way pretend to be an expert on MGf's i managed to do the cambelt/ tensioner/ waterpump change all by my own self with my girlie hands and had no problems ( apart from the horrendous lack of space to work!) There is no specialists to MG's near here ( my location is wrong in the heading btw its not Hertfordshire) and to be honest i dont think any local garage would be able to tell me more than i know at present. Ive never come across a problem i cant fix and i dont intend to find one now thanks

Emma x
emma nicholson

>Nor could hangimg my handbag on it i guess!

Depends on what you keep in you handbag ;-) you might wear the selectors.

>What i meant was...
Thats how I read it, the gear cables come out under the box - is there any resistance in them that might have caused binding - I read your first comment to mean that the noise was there whilst you were in gear, was this not the case?

>all by my own self with my girlie hands and had no problems

sometimes girly has are an advantage, esp in tight engine bays.


Left field:
Could it have been the cat or other heatsheild? I'm thinking that one might have got loose and was rubbing against the exhaust and acting as a speaker for all those noises you never hear, and now has rattled off.
Will Munns

Oh and I don't think that patrick was trying to get at you.
Will Munns

Nah, he likes getting at everyone ;o) ;o) (Sorry Patrick ;o))
Rob Bell

Hey, Emma,

My Oirish tuppence (or two cents) worth... go on, you good thing! Fair play to you for having the guts (albeit with apparently oodles of experience) to tackle this yourself.

I salute you ;-)
Col (who's not adverse at *learning* either)
Colin McIlwaine

No garage will ever pay the same attention to a car as an owner especially one who knows what she is doing. The only reason to take it to a garage would be if any special tools are required but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

So, if I understand correctly the noise now only occurs when the car is moving - not with the engine running in neutral or in gear with the clutch depressed?
Spyros Papageorghiou

It sounds like you are far more experienced than me so its unlikely I can add anything useful. However, I love a good mystery and will be following this thread with great interest!
So does the noise vary with road speed or engine speed?
My last funny rattle noise turned out to be the top bolt holding the Alternator in place. It had come loose and wiggled out so far that it was rattling against a heat shield on the exhaust. I'm sure you would have spotted this but my thinking is that the bolt would cause the rattle and the loose alternator might produce a whine from the bolt. You would have had to remove the bolt to change the cambelts if you follow the rover manual.

Good Luck!
Russell Parslow

Russell's not alone in having that problem, that particular bolt dropped out of mine and the alternator was resonating against the block giving a noise that sent shivers down my spine.

How that bolt worked itself out with the exhaust shield in place I'll never know, the MGR replacement bolt wasn't even close to going in until the shield is moved out of the way.

I'm guessing you'll have inspected this already Emma, but if not then well worth a look.
Mike Hankin

Just to add to this thread, Just over a year ago I too had a small rumble noise followed by a wistle noise. I found out the cause pulling up at traffic lights when my cam belt tensioner failed. The result was extensive rebuilding of the head as all 16 valves bent. Mine too had a belt change under 10k miles previous to this. When I spoke to the garage I was told that the cam belt tensioner was only checked at belt changes, not renewed automatically as with other makes.

So may pay to check this out

regards


don
don k

Emma,

Reading through this and your earlier thread, it sounds as though you get this noise even when stationary, so that rules out stuck pads, etc. Noise in an engine bay are notorious to pin down.

Have you checked the alternator belt and that fibre mat
cover in the offside wheel arch?

Since you refere to it as a whiney type of noise rather than a rattle, I don't suppose this is relevant, but just for the record, I had a silly rattle that turned out to be a broken support bracket for the oil filler pipe!

Tony



Tony

Emma,

to rule out engine noises, etc, go out and buy yourself a mechanics stephoscope. They only cost several pounds and are worth there weight in gold.
All you do is pretent you are a doctor, and just prod and poke with the unit to hear all that your engine will reveal.

That way you can rule things out and even pinpoint things that are wrong.

Cheers,
Branko.
Branko

Emma, stick in there don't let anyone tell you cannot repair it yourself. BUT asking here for help with your experience may not get the right response because the majority here do not work on cars for a living so haven't the right experience.
10k on the cam belt proves it was done ok. From your post you say it is coming from the top left,near the small belt?? It could be the hydraulc VVC cam controller. As advised pretend to be a doctor(why not others do it;-))and use a stethoscope.
BTW hanging a heavy handbag with those tools in it on the gear stick can damage the gear mechanism;-)
Bet Patrick hasn't seen the film 'Christine' that was some cool car.
Good luck with finding the whine.
Nando

This thread was discussed between 21/09/2005 and 26/09/2005

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