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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - 5 speed conversion

I am sure this question was asked before. I just purchased 1955 TF and will do a full nuts and bolts restoration.
I was not happy with the gearbox on my 1954 TF. Driving in California traffic without syncro was tough. I am thinking may be I should upgrade to 5 speed. However, Moss is very expensive. Any recommendation on less a costly alternative to original 4 speed GB.

Thank you
Boris
B Gruzman

My new project

B Gruzman

I bought my five speed kit directly from the producer, Hi-gear engineering. The proprietor, mr. Peter Gamble, is a very nice elderly gentleman, very helpful, and a bit cheaper than Moss, although transport may be an issue as he is situated in the UK.

The five speed conversion transformed my car, less vibration, more power, effortless cruising, less transmission noise, smoother shifting, etc etc. This is the best thing I have done with my 1954 TF 1500. Although expensive, it will still be a fraction of your total restoration costs, and you can deduct cost of rebuilding your current gearbox and propshaft, plus a new clutch is also included in the kit. Net extra cost when the alternative costs are in the equation is maybe 2.000 dollars or less.

Buy the best and cry only once!

regards,

Jan
JE Kristoffersen

I have the Skyhook 5-speed from Steve Neal in my TF. But I think you will have to find a '79-'82 Datsun B210 trany for him to convert. The 5-speeds have a prefix of FL, FX or FA; getting had to find, but you might have luck in the Cal. back country.
David Werblow

Agree with Jan - order direct from Hi-Gear and avoid the middle man (Moss).
Gene Gillam

That was my 1954 MG TF 1250 after full nuts and bolts restoration. Beautiful but difficult to drive.

B Gruzman

I keep hearing that Datsun B-210's are also out in the fields of Mexico,, but difficult to get back to civilization,,,

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Steve - I also "hear" that there are trailersfull of them available in Japan for peanuts.

And bridges to be bought in Manhattan...

LOL

Tom Lange
t lange

Steve Neal is out of business, sigh...
efh Haskell

Will a 1983 Datsun 280Z transmission work for a conversion? PJ
Paul Jennings

In a word..no. The Datsun coversions are now history unless somebody wants to take up the mantle for conversions. And I just don't see that happening due to the lack of gearboxes, the work involved and the limited customer base.
MG LaVerne

Paul,
See werblows reply above
STEVE WINCZE

Just a point of clarification about the transmissions formerly used by Skyhook. Steve used the Datsun 210 gearboxes NOT A DATSUN B210. There is some prohibitive configuration difference as I understood it when I bought mine. It is a shame he is not converting them anymore because it certainly is an asset to my TD.
Jim Merz

Do I understand the verdict correctly? Is it Hi Gear from UK?
B Gruzman

Yes

http://hi-gearengineering.co.uk/

Regards

Jan
JE Kristoffersen

Reason I asked about the 280Z is I can get one for free. Now I know it won't work, it eliminates that idea and one less piece of junk in the pile. PJ
Paul Jennings

Would the total cost of the High Gear unit from the UK with shipping match the unit price from Moss here in the states? PJ
Paul Jennings

Paul, I believe the 280 gear box is used for the MGB but I don't know what modifications are made to it.
MG LaVerne

Almost any box CAN work, it just depends on how much modification you will have to do. If the box is physically a similar size, and the bell housing and gear shift locations are similar, the modifications are that much easier. I wonder how similar the Miata box is? I've never seen one used, but there are enough of them out there. I almost put a Miata drivetrain in a basket case TD a few years ago. It looked easy enough to do size wise, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
-David
D. Sander

Paul,

You will save about $800 over the Moss price and that includes shipping a custom fees. Peter Gamble is in New Zealand visiting relatives but should be home mid-January. Call and talk to him - he can give you the shipping costs - add them to the costs on the website to compare with Moss.

Gene
Gene Gillam

I was lucky enough to find a Ford T9 5-speed from a mid '80's Merkur. I got the conversion kit from Peter Gamble in the UK. The Merkur box is a heavy duty box and has a bearing that has to be allowed for with a bit of re-machining of the bell housing, and Needs the short input shaft. I got the input shaft from Hi Gear Engineering with the conversion and had the machining done locally. This was for my MGA but the transmission is the same for the TD. Can't say enough good things about Peter's help and advice.
C.R. Tyrell

there is a video on youtube from the 2013 MG show and spares day at Stoneleigh UK. 40 seconds into the film there is a sequence of the Hi gear stand. Peter Gamble and his wife in maroon sweaters. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/TOfbrxGhOak

regards,

Jan
JE Kristoffersen

I've heard murmurs of someone working out a miata transplant for the T series, but no specific info to report. The last piece I did hear was that the cross member would need to be cut which even I would have a bit of trouble doing. Though very few of us revert to the stock box, I think most of us prefer the option to restore it available to us.
Alex Waugh

Alex, I could be wrong but, I believe the Miata transmission is a one piece housing, no removable/replaceable bell housing. With that in mind, it could be a very costly endeavor. I also don't like cutting the rear cross brace out. I've been looking at small 5 speed transmissions of various makes for quite some time for a conversion without cutting anything original out. I've come up with a couple ideas. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Paul,

Have you looked at this page?

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/gearboxes.html

Jim
JE Carroll

Jim, Thanks for that article. Ratios being very important, the article gives them for each transmission. I've been looking for a used bell housing from a TD/TF transmission to see how much machining would have to be done using a modern transmission. The transmissions being used are getting scarce, their demanding a high dollar, their old technology and parts are out of this world. We've been led to the idea that only what's available from the present suppliers is the only way to go. Modern transmissions with modern technology are plentiful, their getting smaller and there has to be some that can be converted for our use at much less cost. PJ
Paul S Jennings

From '85 to '99 my wife had a Corona GT-S that I assume from Jim's post had the
W5* -4.091 3.566 2.056 1.384 1 0.861 35kg 160 85 Carina/Corona (3T-GTE) tranny. It was smooth as a baby's ... and, if I recall correctly, was attached to a twin-cam 16 valve, 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine developing 112 hp so it should surely handle the output of an XPAG.

The radiator burst and the engine fried one hot August night and we swapped it for the current '99 Camrey (great but boring car) - I sure wish I'd kept the GT-S if for nothing more than just the tranny.

Jud
J K Chapin

From '85 to '99 my wife had a Corona GT-S that I assume from Jim's post had the
W5* -4.091 3.566 2.056 1.384 1 0.861 35kg 160 85 Carina/Corona (3T-GTE) tranny. It was smooth as a baby's ... and, if I recall correctly, was attached to a twin-cam 16 valve, 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine developing 112 hp so it should surely handle the output of an XPAG.

The radiator burst and the engine fried one hot August night and we swapped it for the current '99 Camrey (great but boring car) - I sure wish I'd kept the GT-S if for nothing more than just the tranny.

Jud
J K Chapin

That would be a deal breaker if the Miata transmission required the removal of a cross member. When I was pondering the Miata/TD hybrid project I had a 1990 Miata on the lift, and I took measurements to see if the engine and transmission could be adapted to fit in a TD. I remember finding that clearence was not a problem, but I did not do the project so I can't say definitively.
The Steve Neil conversion is shockingly easy, the transmission almost bolts right in as is, only needing minimal modification. There must be other transmissions that are nearly as easy.
-David
D. Sander

STEVE WINCZE,

I can personally verify your comment. I had a daughter working in Durango Mexico, a silver-mining town in the interior. One day while she was at work, I took her car and drove about looking at the many abandoned cars in the fields, and I saw quite a few. In fact in the bushes of the back yard of her rented ranch there was an abandoned Buick in lovely shape, totally free of rust.

In Mexico car maintenance is almost unheard of, and engines quite often allowed to overheat and are destroyed, whilst the body is in great shape, and are left in an empty field to end their lives. Most have been seriously canaballized, but most still had transmissions.

Nissans (Datsuns) were and still are, big sellers in Mexico so there are lots of them both on and off the road.

In the course of only one day I saw at least 10 Datsun 210s (note: NOT 210B), and about half had the 4 speed, whilst another 5 had the 5-speed ... just begging to be salvaged.

Sad huh?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

An alternatively is to go with the Toyota Celica T2 or T3 5 speed box. A Sydney, Aust. company makes a bell-housing to suit the XPAG. The only problem is the rear support cross member needs to be removed / modified when using the same front mount and a new tailshaft is needed.

The Bellhousing used the TDs clutch mechanism.

The attached photo shows my new cross member.

Merry Christmas to all (from a soggy Sydney)

Stuart Duncan

I had a '79 Celica and an '80 Supra with the heavier, closer ratio box. Both were very smooth but the Supra box was considerably bigger. It seems no matter what, the extra gear set for 5th make them a little too long.
JE Carroll

Stuart, Do you have the name/address of the co making the bell housings? PJ
Paul S Jennings

Paul,

That looks like a Dellow bell housing for the Celica gearbox. Have a look at the Dellow web-site, page 5 of their pdf.
http://www.dellowconversions.com.au/images/DellowAutomotive.pdf.

All kinds of useful information here. Most importantly however, is that they also stock the T50 gearboxes.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Just emailed them, thanks Gord. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Email address of Dellow Automotive just got kicked back in my email. Address undeliverable! Hmmm.
Paul S Jennings

There are many variants of the Ford T9 gear box. Ratios, input shaft length and speedo drive differ (some have an electronic speedo drive) There was an article in Octagon car Club magazine a few years ago which detailed all this. Problem now is T9s are no longer littering scrap yards and to buy one from a specialist can cost hundreds of pounds. I also worry about the future value of a converted car. I recently sold a prewar OHC MG and many of these were converted to Ford power in the 1950s and original engines are now worth a fortune. If you want a 5 speed MG why not buy a modern TF or F which will cost less than a conversion kit for a T Series.

Jan T
J Targosz

PJ,
They're selling on ebay now, also go to their website, <http://dellowconversions.com.au/>
Al
54 TF Emma
A W Parker

Error 404: Page not Found
efh Haskell

Works fine here http://dellowconversions.com.au/ Bud
Bud Krueger

I got on their web site, I just can not make contact through their email address. I'll check later. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Jan,

I'd like to offer an alternative perspective on the 5-speed conversion and why I've found it to be such a fine idea. With the Ford T9 conversion, the Judson supercharger, an MGA differential and a host of other engine mods, my TD is now a reliable and legitimate 80 MPH cruiser with a top speed of just over 100 MPH. While it is by no means a modern automobile, it took me over Canada's continental divide last summer in a 700 mile 14-hour journey with no problems. The American term for my rebuild is a 'resto-mod' and while the term itself seems a bit silly, I was able to put 7000 trouble-free and very enjoyable miles on the TD this summer. The end result is a car that's absolutely reliable - yet one that still maintains that vintage spirit of 'Safety Fast'. Is it an original TD? Absolutely not, but it's a hell of a lot of fun. And whatever the resale is or isn't, that's my daughters' problem when they settle my estate, hopefully about 50,000 miles from now.

With respect,
Dave

Dave Jorgensen

Dave! That is a fantastic picture.The shining TD in the front and the derelict Ford in the background. A picture to remind us all that in these days of highways and motorways there are always backroads to enjoy.

A technical comment: when cruising at 80, is your TD stable, I mean really stable in its behaviour on the road? MY TF is dead stable up to 60 and I never go faster, but strong gusts of sidewinds are really scary even at 60, grabbing hold of the TF.

regards,

Jan
JE Kristoffersen

Jan:

The TD is quite stable at 80 mph, perhaps because I removed the front fenders so I have less front lift relative to a stock TD. My guess is that the original clamshell fenders add some positive lift to the front end, and with the cycle fenders I think that mine might be a quieter front end, aerodynamically speaking.

It's a different story at 95 mph+, though. I took it to 102 mph on the GPS just to see what was possible, but I needed a lot of the highway to stay on track. Once at the Ton is quite enough, however, and 80 MPH cruising will serve me quite nicely from now on. Here's a picture of my front end - you can see the frontal area is quite a bit smaller than a stock TD - plus I'm sure that the front license plate acts as a really effective spoiler and provides a huge amount of downforce :>).

cheers,
Dave

Dave Jorgensen

Dave,

You are probably right about the front fenders of clamshell design, they really are air-scoops. But, I will keep my TF fenders, tune in to Vera Lynn on my mp3 system and potter happily along at 60 and accept the side wind effect when it comes into force while I sing along to " There will always an England".

regards,


Jan
JE Kristoffersen

This thread was discussed between 19/12/2013 and 27/12/2013

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