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MG TD TF 1500 - '54 TF Rear Seal

Okay, here goes! How possible is it to be able to replace the rear seal without pulling the engine, or the transmission? If too difficult, then it is above my pay grade, and I will have to find a shop! $$$ If there is a great video/film/photos of the "easy" pro-
cess, or someone has diy instructions the hard way, please let me have the references. I am not a good mechanic, and it does not take a very big bite for me to go after one too big to chew! Thanks ALL
Jerry
Jerry Chandler 1951 TD

Jerry, unless you have the late seal conversion, the oil is kept in the engine by a reverse scroll which is prone to drip when the engine gets a lot of miles on it, this is a normal situation. In any case, the engine will likely need to come out to replace the late style seal, if that's what you have, flywheel has to come off etc. With the scroll setup, even after rebuild, crank bearings etc, the scroll will most likely leak somewhat causing a slight drip when shut down. It's a touch and go situation. Remember, MGs are known for making their mark wherever they go, that's why a bolt on catch pan was designed to go under the split pin hole and I'm told they work very well. PJ
Paul161

Paul is right and I suggest doing a little research in the archives and elsewhere as volumes have been written about this over the years. How much is yours leaking? Years ago someone in the Orlando club rated shutdown leaks by size: coffee cup sized or smaller normal, saucer size getting excessive, salad plate sized puddle or larger worrisome and it may be time to pull the engine. George
George Butz

Super-thanks to Paul and George. Also, Len Fanelli has provided an E-mail response which I really appreciate. Fellows, so far it appears that the oil leakage has started to become serious. A car-club friend has given a look-see, and thinks I probably am needing to do the inglorious rear seal work! Yikes! I am afraid it will be too costly for me at this time - may have to wait to see if another ship comes in! Thanks for reading and responding. Jerry
Jerry Chandler 1951 TD

Make sure that is where the leak is. It is easy to be fooled by leaks above and in front of the dripping area. Check oil line banjos on the block/head especially, and also snug the oil pan bolts. Be careful with the front two bolts as they are threaded into the soft aluminum timing cover and the fine 1x8.0 thread will strip easily. George
George Butz

Jerry, One of these drip pans might make life a little easier. A few of the guys have made them and some can be purchased at a moderate cost. You just have to drain them on occasion. PJ

Paul161

I had considered fitting a rear seal to my TF but after reading up on the subject have decided to use a catcher tank / sponge. Irrespective on the engineering skills of the fitter it appears to be hit and miss whether the set up will work first time. I suspect the problem is caused by the very narrow bearing surface, on the speedy sleave, for the lip to run on. I have tried to determine if anyone has machined off the scroll and fitted a split lip seal. I have recently seen one of these and was impressed. The coil spring is first removed by unhooking the ends. The actual seal is precision hinged and clips / unclips together. By opening this the seal can fitted over a steppped shaft (as per the EXPAG), clipped together and the spring reattached. I appreciate extra machining would be required but it is necessary to dismantle the engine to fit one of the current kits.

Jan T
J Targosz

When you pull the motor dont forget to check the integrity of the cam rear welsh plug. Better options are available than the Moss seal kit, however will require machining of the crank.
G Evans


Jan T--- Who sells this split seal with the hinged /spring set up. Can you point me in the direction so I can do a little research----Thanks
Richard Cameron

Hi Richard,

I read an article in the last but one edition of Practical Classics which showed a seal being fitted to a Triumph TR2 engine. I pass on magazines that I have read to an old people's home for elderly residents to read but someone else may still have a copy to hand.

If you Google Triumph TR2 rear oil seal kit you will find a number a of write ups and pictures showing seal kits. Not all pictures show the split seal though. It appears the oil scroll on the Triumph engine doesn't take up all of the journal width and there is enough smooth space for the lip without having to machine the crank. It looks like split seals are quite expensive but still much less than the current, speedy sleeve kits.

Please let us know how you get on.

Jan
J Targosz

I have ordered a drip catcher like the one pictured above. It is in transit now. In the meantime, I had fashioned one from a Tupperware container, but I need to grind the fins down on the rear of my pan. Hate to do that, but my car is a driver, not a show car. I need to minimize or eliminate the drip.

Cheers,
Frank
TF 1891

Frank Bice

Frank,
The last time I had the sump off I relocated the jiggle pin which saves having to butcher the fins. I also fitted a baffle, a drain tap and a level gauge.
Regards
Declan

Declan Burns

Windscreen sponge as a baffle.
I did find that it is very easy to scrape the drain tap on traffic humps-there is not much road clearance.
Declan

Declan Burns

Hi Frank and Declan,

Declan's photo prompted me to make up a tank but I simply brazed on a nut, at the side, to act as a boss for a nut and fibre washer. The use of a sponge as a baffle is an excellent touch. However there is no need to grind off all the fins. I simply chamfered the middle one at the end nearest the gasket flange. I was working outdoors with no electric power near by so used a small chisel to remove a few slivers of aluminium. I then bent a small "V" shaped protusion in the top rear edge of catcher tank to fit into the chamfer. I also bent the split pin in the bell housing so it lies across the car and is held in this position by the sponge. I have absolutely no drips. If the tank was to be removed only a real expert would be able to tell the fins had been modified.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

Hi Frank and Declan,

Declan's photo prompted me to make up a tank but I simply brazed on a nut, at the side, to act as a boss for a nut and fibre washer. The use of a sponge as a baffle is an excellent touch. However there is no need to grind off all the fins. I simply chamfered the middle one at the end nearest the gasket flange. I was working outdoors with no electric power near by so used a small chisel to remove a few slivers of aluminium. I then bent a small "V" shaped protusion in the top rear edge of catcher tank to fit into the chamfer. I also bent the split pin in the bell housing so it lies across the car and is held in this position by the sponge. I have absolutely no drips. If the tank was to be removed only a real expert would be able to tell the fins had been modified.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

Sounds like a better solution than grinding off the fins. Possibly could be done without removing the sump? Would you get more ground clearance by fitting an elbow and turning the drain tap through 90 degrees. We have those traffic bumps in our village too, and a 20mph speed limit.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Hi Dave,

Absolutely no need to remove the sump. I did the modification lying on my back with the car on axle stands in the drive. I used a small chisel and the job took minutes. You only need to taper the middle rib for about 1/2" The important thing is to get the split pin touching Declan's sponge. The oil will then run down this.

Jan
J Targosz

C'mon guys, grinding off the fins is easy and since you don't need to remove the outer fins, totally unnoticeable with the drip pan in place. Who's so anal they're going to slither under your car to see whether or not the center fins have been removed?


Gene Gillam

This thread was discussed between 14/09/2016 and 18/09/2016

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