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MG TD TF 1500 - Aligning top and bottom hinges

In a recent search if the archives, I read a suggestion to remove the pins from top and bottom hinges and replace with a long rod when installing the hinges into new hinge pillar. The rod will align the two hinges.

The pins on my new Moss hinges are peened at the bottom.

> Should I try to knock out the pins?
> Will the dimples significantly damage the hinge barrels?
> Or, just attach the hinges the best that I can without aligning?

Thanks for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Won't the hinges try and revert back to there alignment once the rod is removed. I just did one door on my 53 TD and although it took several hours I finally got the alignment just right (no rod used). I did use a homemade turnbuckle in the door though.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

If you use the long rod technique you have to loosen the hinges to the body and/or door so they can shift.

Then after the hinges align with the rod in place you would tighten the bolts and in theory, the rod would influence how much bolts would not move the hinges. YMMV.
Christopher Couper

I believe that the hinges would need to be shimmed, or the wood plugged and redrilled as dictated by the rod. Easiest with new doors and new hinges. Tim is right, just retightening existing doors without modifying would cause them to revert.

I'm attaching my existing doors to new hinge pillars. Same hinge screws in door; temporary 1" #8 screws in the new pillars. The left door was always "wonkey". I laid a straight edge across the leaves and across the barrels. The two hinges are totally out of alignment with each other. Since it doesn't look like I can easily remove my hinge pins, a straight edge will guide my changes to the door and will guide new holes in the pillar.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

But there is also an issue with how the hinges are Bent.

New ones may be straight but the ld ones were not. The doors may have been aligned to the old twisted hinges.

Mine were very worn and had over shaped holes. The hinges were also twisted.
I machined the holes so I could insert porous bronze bushings. This did not clean out the oil on one. I filled that one with silver braze, and re-machined.
I did not change the original holes in the posts. they were drilled at compound angles at the factory.
I hung the doors and then twisted and shimmed the hinges until the doors fit in an acceptable manner.

Takes some time!

In my book, the issue is to get the doors to look correct, and close properly, not necessarily to be straight on the post.

I also have, shop made, door twisters that help align the front of the doors.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Guess I'm over-thinking it.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Found the post about the alignment rod.

Lonnie
TF7211

=====

Thread: Door hinges
Posted 07 April 2010 at 14:12:59 UK time
Dave Braun, Minnesota, USA
Boris,

You can pull out the pins and use a single rod going through both hinges to align them. Make sure the cut outs in the wood and metal line up between the door and tub when you place the door into the opening. If not, correct it now. The door must have clearance fit all the way around, if not correct it now.

Slip the hinges into the openings provided, locating the hinges so the single rod is parallel to the plane of the door swing. Make sure you still have clearance at the forward end of the door (that the hinges are not pushing the door forward into the front post and metal, including the latch area. You can place shims around the opening to hold every thing in place and maintain distances. Measure the depth of the hinges in the tub, top and bottom. Remove everything and set the hinges in the tub as you measured them, but don't torque everything down tight yet, just snug.

Now set the doors in place and check the fit and measure the depth of the hinge in the door. Mount the doors, snug but not tight. Check the door swing and closure, keeping in mind that the snug fit will cause the door to sag a tad. If needed to swing the door up or down in the opening add thin metal shims under the hinges as appropriate. Replace the rods with the hinge pins, recheck fit. If OK, tighten the screws and nuts, and check again for swing. Last, add the wood screws in the third hole.

If at every point things line up and the wood and metal are installed properly, you will end up with nice fitting doors. Anything you can do to provide good clamping surface for the screws and nuts, including metal plates on the back side of the wood where the nuts are tighten is good in the long run.

Hope this helps,
dave

LM Cook

It is obvious that to swing properly the hinge pins must be in line. When I trial fitted the hinges into the TF's new body it was obvious the they were not and shims would be necessary. The problem was how to measure for the shims - they would need to be tapered. Using the single rod technique I fitted one hinge flap to the body and was able file up a shim for the other. After screwing the, now in line hinges to the body I was able fit the door into its opening, clamp it shut and then file more shims.

Jan T
J Targosz

Not quite on topic but I don’t think I have read this elsewhere....
TF2071 is ‘hopefully’ having its final prepaint test assembly and I noticed that the front of one door had a gap at the top and the opposite had a gap at the bottom. Rather than attempt to twist both doors I made use of the adjustments built into the brackets that attach the tub/valance to the roll hoop to push the top in the right direction and get both doors close to perfect. It helped to have all the corner tub/valance bolts slightly loosened.

The last bit of correction was made using the lateral slots in the chassis where the front pair of tub/chassis bolts fit.

No doors were abused in the making of these adjustments.

Chris
C I Twidle

Lonnie.
In looking at your first photo here is what appears the beginning of a crack. Look at the small white spot on the door right at the bottom of the hinge.
Sandy
Sanders

Thanks Sandy,

I’ll check it out. The metal is probably stressed in the area. This is old paint. I’m still fitting wood, sheet metal, and hinges. Hope to be finished with fitment and going to paint in January.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Wow. I wholeheartedly recommend using a rod to position the hinges if you are restoring a T-car.

I couldn't remove the pins from my new hinges, so I removed the pins from two old hinges and replaced with a 1/4" rod.

The bottom hinge was over a half-inch out of alignment with the top hinge in my right door. The problem is with the hinges in the door. I attached the hinges with one screw in each hinge in the doors and left a gap under the empty screw hole. And temporarily attached to the hinge pillar and quarter panel with #8 wood screws.

The door swings effortlessly. And the fit at the front is better.

I'll add shims where needed then replace with my new hinges. It would be better if I could have removed the pins from my new hinges.

Thanks to Mark Buringrud, owner of the MG Octagon Garage in Debary FL, for helping me.

> Sandy, the door skin isn't cracked. I sanded to bare metal.

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Lonnie.
If those are the old hinges I would suggest that they be used once more. You can ream them out to fit a slighly larger bolt then grind the head to match original pins.
Sandy
Sanders

Maybe so. I know that even with shims, I won’t be able to get the new hinges to fit exactly as the ones with the rod. I’ll fit both and see. You’re right - the old ones need to be reamed, bushed, and new pins, or larger pins if I don’t rebush.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Always use the old hinges if you can. They were probably bent when installed to your particular car.

I suspect what you are doing may have been a factory technique, or at least the loose fitting concept.

I had always wondered why that wood screw was part of the hinge attachment and I think you have proven why. It just holds the hinge in a manner that the assembly is easily tweaked and aligned by the components. After everything settled they would then go back in and put in the machine bolts, making sure everything stayed in place while tightening.
Christopher Couper

Thinking about this thread even more I wonder if it would be possible to put a rod between the two hinges, screw one to the body and push the other one into the socket in the body onto a bed of bondo or even modelling clay. This could then be removed and provide template for fabricating a suitable shim. On my car the shims had to be tapered and these can be formed with a file providing you know the shape and dimensions. I know this may sound over kill but fitting the doors can take hours and if the holes for the hinge bolts are drilled in the wrong place this can weaken the pillar.

Jan T
J Targosz

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2019 and 30/08/2019

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