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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Ammeter Pointer

I have two original early TD 20 amp ammeters & both require a pointer. I just need the part as I'm able to easily replace it myself. Any idea where I can purchase a couple of pointers? Both instruments have the pivot grub screw. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

Try Doug Pelton he is listing the pointer for the TC Oil Gauge and others.

Also Beale Instruments, now Gauge Works in Adelaide they have assisted SA MG owners.

Graeme
G Evans

Couldn't find the ammeter pointer on the FTFU site Graeme. Not surprising really as it isn't just a pointer as it also includes the pivot. This is the only moving part in what is really a very, very simple instrument. Gauge Works have my email & said they will respond. Tried a few others in the States including Nisonger but I'm not holding my breath. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

I would be dropping Doug an email, if anyone knows a source he will.

Graeme
G Evans

There are a couple of people in the UK & Eire who mend these things (Greg Clarke and Patrick Henry) whether they would be prepared to release a pointer to you is open to question, but certainly cheaper than shipping the ammeter over and back again. If you need their contact details, please get in touch with me direct.
Ian Bowers

Peter,

I am not a fan of Nisonger for instruments, but there are two other companies I have had good success with. I don't know whether the have the part, but try:
John Wolf and Company in Willoughby, Ohio USA at http://antiqueinstrument.com/
Also APT Instruments in Minneapolis at http://www.gaugeguys.com/

Lew Palmer

Just a thought - if the pointer mechanism on the Water Temp or Oil Pressure gauges are similar to the Ammeter, it could broaden your scope for finding a replacement. Especially true as a broken capillary on the Water Temp gauge, etc., makes a repair more difficult, so S/H value of a gauge lower.
Dave H
es1

Thanks Lew. I'll check out John Wolf & Company. APT won't supply the pointer but will supply & fit for a hefty sum. Same deal with Nisonger who charge even more. Contacted the two companies Ian suggested & am awaiting a reply.

Dave as is shown in the attached pic the pointer & pivot are fabricated together & are unique to the ammeter. This is the only moving part in a really very, very simple instrument. One of my two 20 amp 369 289D 453? BM4 L 29 ammeters does have a badly damaged pointer which I've managed to straighten to some degree, but needs more work & could be used at a pinch. I may have to resort to trying to make a new pointer for the other one, but if this was my instrument fitter's trade test, I reckon I'd fail! The pointer is broken off near the pivot & is missing. (In the foreground of the pic). This would be really very difficult as the material is incredibly thin, just a few thou, with a gentle taper finishing in an ornate arrowhead. No idea what the material was originally or what to attempt to make it from. Then there is the added problem of attaching it to the broken stub of the pointer near the pivot. Someone has to be supplying pivot/pointers to the various companies who are able to repair these Type BM ammeters. Question is who? Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter, another idea is to check some of the online clock parts sellers. The sell hands, and if I have to admit it, the pointer on my PA tachometer is a repurposed second hand from a clock. I was lucky to find a near perfect match.
Lew Palmer

Peter

Super Glue can be your best friend, I repaired my Ammeter by using a hand of the wrong range instrument and glueing it to the TF unit.

I reckon at a push you could cut a pointer out of heavy "Alfoil" and attach it to the pivot, a coat of glue will assist in stiffening it prior to painting.

Fabricating the pivot and moving iron mechanism is a bigger challenge.

Graeme
G Evans

I may have found a supplier of just the teardrop pointer not including the pivot. Graeme, wondering if solder may join the broken stub to the new pointer, rather than using super glue? Once I get a pic of the pointer I'll post it here. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

From memory I believe my pointer was made from an alloy, not viable to use solder.

Dont forget to check the continuity of the coils measured from each post, the wire can be brittle with age and manufacture of "Lucas Smoke".

Graeme
G Evans

Received the following somewhat cryptic reply from one firm who state 'I can only supply the straight design Lucas pointer (in an ammeter case ) for the 1953 ammeter you have and not the earlier prewar design one with a small arrow point.' I guess he's saying that he'll sell me a pointer as long as I buy the ammeter? If this info about the design is correct the ammeters I have may be prewar instruments. My guess is as it's a 20 amp ammeter it was probably the same as the one fitted from the TA to the early TD, but perhaps the pointer did differ? Would've been cheaper to make the straight rather than the ornate arrowhead version. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, I don't know what's up with the company that can only supply straight pointers. ALL MG TC, TD, TF and Y had ammeters with a pointy arrow head end (like yours). As you have found out they are very delicate and, when removing the dial face, they are often bent and broken.
Cheers, Hugh Pite
H.D. Pite

Thanks Hugh. Nice to hear from you & I'm sure others here appreciate the clarification in relation to the shape of the pointers. The search continues. I don't suppose you have a pointer/pivot for sale? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
I would cut it with a scalpel from thin paper card or metal foil (~0.15mm) and glue it on as suggested above.

Regards
Declan

D Burns

Peter,
You could also make it from an empty beer can-drink the beer first and it will help steady you hand! Flatten the pointer with an old spoon on a piece of wood.

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

If you use a Guinness can you won't even have to paint the pointer!
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Thanks Declan, I needed a good laugh. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Managed to straighten the seriously deformed pointer & it now just needs a touch up. I think I'll leave the other one in the too hard basket. Declan I guess the original colour was a dirty Guinness brown pretty much the same as the lettering? The other problem I have is that whoever replaced the transfer whenever, left a couple of bubbles under the surface. I don't want to mess with them in case it ruptures the surface. There may be something below the surface causing it to sit proud. Otherwise it's in great condition so I'd like to reuse it. Can I try & steam off the transfer? Would a gentle simmer in water with a little detergent added loosen the adhesive without wrecking the lettering? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

It may be worth pricking the bubbles with a needle and then persuading the air out.

The manufactured decals generally need an organic solvent (meths/isopropyl alcohol/turps) to soften the adhesives, and I would be very wary of putting this stuff anywhere near the insulation in the instrument.
Ian Bowers

Yes, I agree trying a needle. Alcohol is not going to harm any vinyl insulation, but you would need to be wary of going near shellac / varnish. Turps probably best avoided.
Dave H
Dave H

Yes, I agree trying a needle. Alcohol is not going to harm any vinyl insulation, but you would need to be wary of going near shellac / varnish. Turps probably best avoided.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I managed to remove the decal by gently simmering, as I didn't want to prick it, but will look to replace it anyway. I have two of the later temp/oil pressure decals if anyone has a spare ammeter decal they care to swap. One of my dials has the original pale green painted face, (no decal), & it is in great condition so I'm focusing on that one. The other had the remnants of the painted dial below the decal.

Going through the archived threads on ammeters it seems there may be two LUCAS types. Apart from the change from 20 amp to 30 amp which occurred sometime during the TD production, there is also mention of a case with four tabs that secure it to the fascia, just like the two I have. The body on these instruments doesn't have the threaded rod & bracket to secure it. Am I right in assuming that these are the early 20 amp LUCAS BM4's & so are correct for the TC as well as the early TD's? Both of my ammeters are marked L 29 & dated 1951, 4/51 & 8/51 respectively. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The following pic is of the two ammeters. The dial needs a bit of a clean up. The rear of the ammeter on the right shows that there is no threaded rod on the body. This is the same with both instruments. Yet to offer it up to the dash so I'm not sure if it can be used. One of the four tabs mentioned in the archive can be seen at the base of the bezel on the right. Appreciate input from anyone who has fitted an original LUCAS BM4 20 amp ammeter in an early TD. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Question answered! While searching through my own gallery I found the following TD pic. Perhaps this is from George Raham? This clearly shows the means of attaching the ammeter to the fascia panel using the four tabs. It also suggests that the two BM 4 ammeters that I have are original. As my presently installed non original ammeter utilises a 'U' bracket to secure it, which also acts as an earthing point, I'd like to continue to use the bracket. Because the four tabs on the correct instrument are pretty fragile & may well break off during installation I'm thinking of drilling a hole through the rib in the body that connects the two terminals, fitting a split ring & attaching that to a length of threaded rod. This means I can secure the ammeter & still use the 'U' shaped bracket with its earthing terminal. Problem solved. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Anybody know if the pointers in the TD instruments were originally painted black or a dark brown to match the lettering? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Could you measure the inside Diameter of the ammeter as I want to produce dials?
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Declan as you probably realise the dial isn't just the flat surface. It's like a flat bottomed circular dish. The sides are about 6 mm deep with cutout areas to allow the bulbs mounted on the inside of the fascia to shine through the green translucent material & illuminate the dial. The rim is turned out slightly. Do you need the ID or the OD of the 'dish' &/or the rim? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks Peter,
I know that it is a flat bottomed circular dish. I wish to make a dial that fits the inner diameter. It would also be interesting to know the size and location of the banana shaped hole where the pointer comes through.
Here' a draft of the graphics.

Regards
Declan

Declan Burns

The pdf shows it a bit fuzzy but it actually very sharp when printed out on photo paper directly from the CAD.
Here's an idea on the quality as on my fuel gauge that I am building. I will have it printed professionally and in the right colour. I have the sensor working on the bench. I made a pointer for that gauge from 0.1mm lithoplate this morning easy to cut with a nail scissors.

Regards
Declan


Declan Burns

How about I make a paper template to fit neatly inside the one on my bench & use a pencil & the brass rubbing technique to show the position of the pointer hole? I can then post it to you. If you're making one for the 30 amp version are you also doing the 20 amp? Also wonder how thick the dial will be as clearance between the pointer & the dial may be an issue.

I have had no luck in finding a source of a 'stick on' replacement pointer. Even tried clock & watch suppliers but their stock is all either too large or too small. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Declan I get 1.755" measuring from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock on both dials. It is pretty difficult to measure accurately even with my digital vernier. There could easily be an error of 20 thou or more. I'd suggest having others confirm this measurement prior to production.

Hugh Pite confirms that on his stock of original ammeters the pointer is brown matching the colour of the lettering. Thanks Hugh. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks Peter,
I am not planning production at present but I am about to re-do my dashboard and have beautiful new dials on the speedo and rev counter and would like to do the ammeter and pressure gauge as well. Your 1.755" measured with the 20 thou accuracy would equate to 44mm inner diameter. I will use that as a starting point. I can do the graphics for the 20 amp version no problem.
On my ammeter the colour is black and not brown-see photo above. If you look at the NTG website reproductions the graphics seem to vary.
http://www.mgbits.com/contents/en-uk/d191_02.html


Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Peter,
Here's a photo of the home made lithoplate pointer on my home made fuel gauge. It is sprayed black and glued on with 10 min epoxy.

Regards
Declan


Declan Burns

Thanks Declan. The LUCAS ammeter pointer is a hell of a lot more detailed & delicate though. The width at the narrowest point is in the order of microns & that teardrop would test the skill of a micro surgeon. I have been offered two original 30 amp instruments in good working order which I will buy & maybe swap one for a 20 amp version in similar condition. This I'll then keep for a spare. Can you email me your postal address again? pjbm at bigpond dot com, so I can send you the template. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Tried to send you an email but I get an error at that address.
Declan Burns

It came through OK Declan. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The modification I mentioned above that I thought I'd try has worked out OK. The following pics show the process. The parts I needed were a 4 mm forked head, a knurled flat nut again 4 mm, a 4 mm machine screw cut to length & a short machine screw & nuts to secure it to the web between the terminals. Also needed a series of drill bits finishing at about 4 mm. This means that an original bezel can be used even if the tabs that secure it to the dash have been broken off. 1st Pic shows the rear of the original body. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Pic 2.

P Hehir

Pic 3.

P Hehir

Peter,

As usual nice workmanship. On my ammeter all the tabs were broken off fortunately the case is available new on ebay (311597653389) I bought one from them good quality and the price is correct, they also sell the correct grub screws.

John

J Scragg

John I thought I'd check out the case you mentioned & found it at the following EBay address.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Lucas-BM4-Ammeter-Bezel-Case-MGTC-Others-/311597653389?hash=item488caadd8d:g:JZ8AAOSw1vlUw6o1

Also one of the four tabs did break off on installation today so happy to report that the modification mentioned above worked a treat & proved a worthwhile precaution. Dash is now ready to be installed. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Paul

Using an external snap ring was my solution to the amp meter fixing to the dash panel for dad's TD/c 8151. Does no damage to the gauge and firmly holds it in place. I know it's not up to your originality standards but I find this to be a clean and effective method of containment

Cheers Mate

Bill Chasser
TD-4834

W A Chasser

The plus side of my method is no modification to the original and brittle Bakelite piece is necessary risking potential breakage under tension over time.

Cheers Mate

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Peter,
The ebay link you cite is a company in England called MJC Products (www.classicbezels.com). They do a full range of bezels for all kinds of instruments. Their work is superb and the quality is excellent. I've ordered many bezels from them before and they are perfect and sturdy.
Lew Palmer

How does the snap ring secure it Bill? Wouldn't it have to sit in a slot to prevent movement? As far as originality goes my philosophy has always been anything that ISN'T seen is fine by me, particularly if it enhances the longevity of the component & thus the car. Hopefully the rib will remain intact. If not, no harm no foul, as I can then use one of John Chadwick's bezels from MJC Products. The fix above cost less than $10 AU whereas the new bezel is five times that plus shipping. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 24/04/2017 and 05/09/2017

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