MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Antifreeze or water

1951 TD5751 newly restored and on the road. I have noticed the radiator water is pretty rusty already. Does anyone use antifreeze or just keep rotating water?

Thanks,
dan
Dan Gill

I use antifreeze and water and add a product called NoRosion which claims to stop rust.
Geoffrey M Baker

A minimal amount of antifreeze can help lubricate water pump bearings and prevent corrosion, but you don't want to run too much since water cools better. You're probably seeing leftover rust from before the block was boiled out. A couple of flushings should clear it up.

I use a splash of antifreeze and a dose of Water Wetter.
Steve Simmons

Gents,

I have run 50/50 ethylene glycol/water in all vehicles for 60 years with very few cooling issues including two 1953 MG TDS. The latter TD in Florida continuously since July 2002 and from the gulf coast to Canada. Now, after fourteen years I am still waiting for cooling issues to develop. Nuff said...

Jim Haskins 1953 TD
J M Haskins

Hi Dan. Any chance of a pic or two? Yours was 50 cars ahead of mine. Steve can you contact me offline. pjbm at bigpond dot com. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Besides preventing the coolant from freezing (lowering the freezing point), antifreeze will raise the boiling point, prevent corrosion, and provide a surfactant that will allow better heat transfer between the coolant and the block material. There is some dispute over how effective the surfactant properties are in off-the-shelf antifreeze, but essentially an additive like Water Wetter is designed to increase the surfactant properties while adding some corrosion inhibitors. It does not change the boiling point, however.

Considering that the TD cooling system is not pressurized, the boiling point is already low compared to a pressurized system.

Here are some specifics from a Google search:


"Fluid - Freezing Point - Boiling Point
Pure Water: 0 C / 32 F - 100 C / 212 F
50/50 mix of C2H6O2/Water: -37 C / -35 F - 106 C / 223 F
70/30 mix of C2H6O2/Water: -55 C / -67 F - 113 C / 235 F
The temperature of the coolant can sometimes reach 250 to 275 F (121 to 135 C). Even with ethylene glycol added, these temperatures would boil the coolant, so something additional must be done to raise its boiling point.

The cooling system uses pressure to further raise the boiling point of the coolant. Just as the boiling temperature of water is higher in a pressure cooker, the boiling temperature of coolant is higher if you pressurize the system. Most cars have a pressure limit of 14 to 15 pounds per square inch (psi), which raises the boiling point another 45 F (25 C) so the coolant can withstand the high temperatures.

Antifreeze also contains additives to resist corrosion."




David Littlefield

But keep in mind that antifreeze doesn't cool as well as water, so there is a balance to be achieved between cooling and lubrication / rust protection. I've found that 70/30 water to antifreeze works very well in my hot climate. Sometimes I take it down to about 80/20. No cooling issues here either, but not 60 years, merely 25. ;)
Steve Simmons

You chaps in the warm climes should try Redline Water Wetter. Even here in the north, it keeps my engine cool (no fan), but drain it in the fall when I mothball the car for the winter; at which time I put in anti-freeze.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gord Clark

Weather seasons are no longer stable, cripes we had snow in Queensland on Xmas day a few years ago. You are playing with fire if you dont have anti freeze or a radiator fluid in your car 365 days of the year. Seen the results of an engine being frozen it was not pretty.

If you check my posts in the Archive there is an Aussie product(available world wide) that will clean your cooling system of all residues and not harm any components, it dropped my running temperature by 10 degrees.

Graeme
G Evans

Never used anything but green antifreeze & 50/50 mix. That's going back to 1956. 99% of cooling problems is because a problem in the system, plugged radiator, plugged block, bad water pump, not the coolant being used. Trying to solve a cooling problem by trying different coolants is like putting a band-aid on a major wound. Fix the problem first then use whatever coolant you want. I would never run just water in any cooling system! Different coolants will change the final temp by just a couple degrees, some have better lubrication and protection qualities than others, some are for special purpose use, as in aluminum blocks and heads and there are additives for that also. GM did this for years for their aluminum water pumps. I don't have cooling problems in any of the vehicles I own, plus my 5 tractors, because their systems are clean. PJ
Paul161

I'm with Paul. A lower temp thermostat should lower the operating temp. But, if your car is right on the edge of overheating, you might try some of the other (watery) suggestions. Coolant mix ratio's seem to be sort of a regional thing. I use distilled water to mix, and many sources like grocery stores are cheap; like around $1.50/gallon. AF/coolant will turn very acidic if left too long.

Info on using a modern type thermostat without too much modification here. The bypass adjustment is discussed in the text.

http://www.mgccyregister.co.uk/technical-information/the-xpag-files/cooling/xpag-overheating/

D mckellar

No one appears to have mentioned red versus green antifreeze. Mt TF with a brand new radiator is filled with a 50/50 red and water mix.

Jan T
J Targosz

Steve, please foot note or provide a link to the data you are quoting regarding cooling properties of water vs water antifreeze mix coolant.

In temps of over 100 degrees in stop and go traffic for over 2 hrs and no over heating with a 50/50 mix.. At best, the pure water vs 50/50 mix discussion is at best, an esoteric one for me.

Regards, tom
tm peterson

Before using Dex-Cool antifreeze, do your homework and read up on the problems with it. There are a lot of complaints about it eating some gaskets and affecting aluminum products. Also do not mix it with the green, they are not compatible. Flush the system completely if going to green. PJ
Paul161

50/50 and water wetter has worked for me many years now. IMHO: A lot of it depends on where you live and how the car is stored. For years I used this formula as the TF was stored winters in unheated garage. Now it is in a heated environment for winters ...but I have kept the mix the same.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

TM;
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html

Every thing you ever needed to know about antifreeze.

Please note that antifreeze can make you car run hotter, over just water, unless you improve the flow rate. But that should have been already incorporated in the design of the T series pump and radiator.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

There's been a lot of comment that anti-freeze 'inhibits' rust. Inhibits does not mean STOPS, it means "slows it down". Reading about antifreeze products on the web, I kept seeing words like "superior protection", "inhibits", "near-perfect scores", "virtually no scaling" etc etc, almost all of which means they do not absolutely guarantee to STOP rust or scaling.
My 51TD had to have the engine completely rebuilt after overheating, and the cause of overheating was an enormous buildup of scale and rust in the water jacket in the middle of the engine block, blocking water movement. Had the overheating happened at speed, the engine would have been destroyed. Luckily, it was at low speed and only the bearings were damaged.
This TD had always had a mix of 50.50 antifreeze and water, since at least 1965, which means that for 52 of it's 60+ years, it has had the standard antifreeze protection against rust/scale.
Clearly, it was simply NOT enough.
If you want your 60 year old engine to last another 60 years, I strongly suggest considering anti-rust additives, as well as regular, thorough flushing.

I use "No-Rosion" and there are other products out there that claim to stop rusting in the water passages. No-Rosion states that their "coolant additives prevent corrosion, deposits, electrolysis, pump failure, and overheating. They can be used in any coolant, and provide 100% protection. Even in straight water."

I will ALWAYS make sure I have this additive, as I would like to see this engine last another 60 years...
The NoRosion product costs $10, so it is a cheap investment. I don't want to "shill" for them, so I'll just add that I am sure there are other additives on the market that may do just as well.
Geoffrey M Baker

The main cause of corrosion is oxygen coming in after expansion of the water.
If you run your overflow into a collector bottle you can prevent this. As the water expands it will go into the bottle as it cools a vacuum will pull it back into the system excluding air.

This works on both the TD and the pressurised TF.
Ray TF2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

Is this the Florida Dan Gill or a new one?

Gene
Gene Gillam

"A lower temp thermostat should lower the operating temp"

Only if the system is capable of running cooler. A thermostat only sets the minimum allowable temperature. It cannot actually increase cooling capability.

"Steve, please foot note or provide a link to the data you are quoting regarding cooling properties of water vs water antifreeze mix coolant." - Tom

A simple Google search will reveal all there is to know about water vs glycol vs mixture, but here is one popular search result:
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/WaterWetter%20Tech%20Info.pdf

But keep in mind that while water may cool more efficiently than glycol products, it also offers no corrosion protection, little lubrication for bearings and seals, and has a narrow range between freezing and boiling. Adding antifreeze will offer huge improvements in all of these areas, with the downside of reducing overall heat transfer somewhat. Those with non-pressurized cooling systems face an even bigger dilemma between boiling point and cooling ability. I usually run about 20% antifreeze in my non-pressurized, thermo-syphon vehicles and 30% in the pump-equipped ones. But everyone has their own special brew and climate/altitude can make a difference as well.
Steve Simmons

Hello Steve , thanks for the link, however your provided link does not work.
As I mentioned in my post, the discussion is an esoteric one based on my own experience. A properly tuned car will run in 100 degree weather, stop and go trafficc for two hours without a cooling issue running 50/50 antifreeze. All the corrosion protection of the mix and set for winter storage in below freezing temps.
Regards, tom
tm peterson

The way this web site redirects pages seems to be breaking the link. You will need to copy the link text and paste it into your address bar.
Steve Simmons

This thread was discussed between 07/05/2016 and 15/05/2016

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now