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MG TD TF 1500 - Bolt length

Hi All. My total TD body/frame fastener list is moving along.

I can say that the Abingdon list and the list Malcome Green has in the T Series Restoration Guide, have head sizes listed that if ordered, will result in the wrong bolts. Most of their 5/16 bolts are 1/4 (Fender to body as an example), and most of the 3/8 are also not correct (I.E. Both list 3/8 for driveshaft bolts when the heads are 1/4)

I have not identified exactly why this is. I am currently trying to see if I can get in contact with Mr. Green to clarify this. Anyone have a contact for him, or know if his is still alive?

Chris Coopers list does have correct bolts. I am hoping this new list will be added to his to make a full list of fasteners.

One bolt I have not been able to measure is the Armstrong shock bolts. If anyone has an original set of Armstrong bolts, I would appreciate getting the lengths of the bolts. Measurement is from the bottom of the head to the end of the thread.

Of Note, I have been in contact with all the big parts suppliers and none have a good list of all the TD fasteners. They say, a full list would be very helpful.

Once done, I will put the list out for evaluation and comments by this group.
Bruce Cunha

One of the Armstrong bolts is longer, as it goes through the engine stay bracket and a spacer.
D. Sander

I think my car originally might have had Girlings because my shock bolts are all stacked with washers. When I restored the car in 1974 the shocks were a bronze color which I assumed were NOS Armstrongs my father had put on the car in the 60's. It was probably easier to just load up with washers to fill the gap than hunt down new bolts, especially Whitworth. :-)

Christopher Couper

I did sent an email to Abingdon today to ask that they provide the bolt head size and bolt length of their kits. This will assure the bolts are correct when ordering them.
Bruce Cunha

The purists are going to hate me for this but where possible I have replaced original mild steel fasteners with stainless ones and many of these are metric. I found, for instance, that I could retap the 5/16 captive nuts that secure the wings M8. With stainless penny and spring washers the underside of the wings on my TF look superb. For readers in the UK a full range of diameters and lengths and washers are available at Screwfix or Toolstation.

Jan T
J Targosz

Weren't the original wing fasteners painted body colour? Agree that 8mm is very close to the original size bolt and at a glance would not look out of place, especially if painted. Stainless might well help prevent those bolts rusting in situ as they always seem to do otherwise.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave the unrestored 1951 MG barn find on Chris's site shows the front wings secured to the chassis with black bolts, not body colour. (Pic 23). The same car also has the bonnet buffers and the securing brackets in black. (Pics 6,8 and 9). Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks. Is that also true for the TF I wonder?
Dave H
Dave Hill

No, I have just check on Chris Couper's site and on the TF they appear to be zinc plated (or similar). Stainless steel looks a bit too shiny in comparison.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Interesting observation in his link to TD 11272

The rear fender bolt appears to have been painted body color. http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/TD11272/Thumbnails/mgtd_gallery_thm_TD11272.htm

Other pictures of the same car appear to not have been painted.

But in image 54, it does look like it may have been zinc plated. http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/TD11272/Thumbnails/mgtd_gallery_thm_TD11272.htm

Bruce Cunha

Inre to TDs I believe the bolts were likely cad plated rather than zinc. I’ve seen latch plates painted chassis black (semi Gloss) and also painted body color although I can’t say with absolute certainty body color plates hadn’t been resprayed. The bonnet side panel bumpers were also likely cad plated.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

You will be very lucky to find new, cadmium played bolts these days. Zinc plated ones look agricultural. The stainless ones I purchased from Tool Station have a very appropriate matt finish. I was able to buy all the fasteners needed for the windscreen, including the long bolts for fixing the stanchions to the body, in stainless, from Spalding Fasteners. They have the correct raised, countersunk, crosshead ones for a TF. I did give these a touch on the buffing wheel and it is hard to see they are not chrome.

Jan T
J Targosz

Yes they do look agricultural, but that is the nature of the car, I guess. Cadmium plating certainly was popular back in the era, but zinc plating looks very similar. Is it as good? I don't know. I have some stainless bolts also, but too shiny and am tempted to paint them.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Hi Dale,

A wire brush or wire wool will easily take away the shine.

Jan
J Targosz

Definitely worth a try.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I think the bolt colors are a bit random. I favor the body colored ones or CAD for the wings. Yes there are a few examples of black on none black cars too. My "black paintbrush" guy at the factory probably got carried away. :-)
Christopher Couper

Many of the bolts, nuts etc on TFs were originally Cadmium plated, not Zinc plated.

If you look at TF9052 on Chris Couper's site the bolts, nuts on various parts of the car are Cadmium plated. This is my experience also after dismantling
many TFs over the years. Sure,some bolts, nuts were painted over on the chassis however their are also many places were the bolts were fitted up bare to attach brackets eg. the horn to chassis strengthening brackets on the front chassis extensions.

The bolt manufacturers used on TFs,(and I suspect TDs), included SPARTS,
RUBERY OWEN, GKN, SLR, NEWTON, LINREAD, BEES AND NEWALL.

On my current /rebuild restoration of our TF1500, I have endeavoured to have these original bolts, nuts placed back in position on the chassis in re Cadmium plated form. A time consuming but satisfying task.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"), TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Many of the bolts, nuts etc on TFs were originally Cadmium plated, not Zinc plated.

If you look at TF9052 on Chris Couper's site the bolts, nuts on various parts of the car are Cadmium plated. This is my experience also after dismantling
many TFs over the years. Sure,some bolts, nuts were painted over on the chassis however their are also many places were the bolts were fitted up to attach brackets eg. the horn to chassis strengthening brackets on the front chassis extensions.

The bolt manufacturers used on TFs,(and I suspect TDs), included SPARTS,
RUBERY OWEN, GKN, SLR, NEWTON, LINREAD, BEES AND NEWALL.

On my current /rebuild restoration of our TF1500, I have endeavoured to have these original bolts, nuts placed back in position on the chassis in re Cadmium plated from. A time consuming but satisfying task.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"), TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Dave. I zinc plated all my bolts, washers and wiring/brake line clips on my 67 MGB back in 2006. Still look fine. They dull up probably more than CAD, but hold up well.

Anyone able to give me a length on the Armstrong mounting bolts?
Bruce Cunha

Bruce TD/c-16920 has Armstrong’s on it but I’d have to move the car back out on the lawn to pull the wings to get at them. If no one else comes forth you and I can pop the wings off

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Thanks Bill. We can add to the list as needed. I will query the other site and if needed can email peter at Worldwide.
Bruce Cunha

Okay Bruce, I have carefully (had to watch out for the new paint !) extracted one of the shock absorber bolts out of the current TF1500 newly, fully rebuilt/restored running chassis. I have also extracted the longer bolt which has a spacer. the one which attaches the engine steady bracket to the chassis.

The 3/8" bolt holding the shock absorber to the chassis cross member, is 1 and 1/8" in length. It is a BEES brand.

The 3/8" longer bolt ( because of the use of a spacer) also holding the engine steady bar to the chassis is 1 and 13/16" in length and branded as WODEN R.

If the main set of bolts attaching the base of the Armstong Shock Absorber
to the chassis are too long, they can erroneously end up pressing against (and distort ) the round front suspension spring guide located under the front end cross member.

I hope this assists your quest.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719(" Aramis"), TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Rob That is great. I don't have access to the Armstrong and this will make the list all that better.

Your measurements bring up a big issue. We always say our cars are whitworth, but all but the engine uses BSF.

It is clear that there are Whitworth wrenches and BSF wrenches. As others have documented, Some of the wrench sets list both sizes on the wrench.

I believe my set is a BSF. Everything I measure using my wrenches comes out different from the measurements listed on things like Abingdon and Malcolm Green's list.

On the TD, using my wrenches, the shock bolt is 5/16.

This is going to be a critical point relating to coming up with a full list of fasteners.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce,

Just to let you know that I measured the shock absorber/engine steady
bracket bolts from under the head to the end of the thread.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Rob. Bet you have a set of whitworth wrenches. I didn't know mine were BSF as they are not marked.

Guess I am going to put a note on my list that if you use witworth wrenches, the sizes listed will be one size larger.
Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 27/09/2018 and 02/10/2018

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