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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - camshaft installation

A few have asked about camshaft installation.
The engine does not need to be removed, the oil pump does not have to be removed either.
Len Fanelli
Abingdon Performance
914 420 8699
LAF48@aol.com
Len Fanelli

Len would you please respond to the points made in the following:

A couple of weeks ago my knowledge of valve trains could have been inscribed on the head of a pin with a jackhammer. It was only after I tried to install the springs that I saw I had two problems. The springs were clearly oversized & I needed to get up to speed on valve trains. In compiling the following I have sought advice from specialist M.G. engine rebuilders, mechanics including Peter Fogarty who is helping me install the springs using his spring compressor & valve spring tester, businesses who deal exclusively in valve train components such as Fabre, Comp Cams & Crow Cams & those who make automotive valve springs for sale worldwide, including Manley Springs, as well as researching the subject on the internet.

At the outset it should be stated that the Chet Herbert cam has drawn nothing but praise from everybody who has contacted me that has managed to install it or have had it installed. The same unfortunately cannot be said for the Fanelli kit. In fact if you’ve purchased one you will know it is exactly the opposite! Len, the biggest single & almost universal complaint from your customers is your unwillingness or inability to effectively communicate. You continue to ignore your customer’ requests for information. If/when you do bother to finally respond, a client more often than not just gets a cryptic response by way of a jumbled set of meaningless numerals. When you were finally badgered into replying to my concerns & criticisms on this thread, really was the best you could come up with just 4695? Believe me that did not go unnoticed. For two people who had been following this thread & were considering purchasing your kit they’ve advised me that was the straw that broke the camels’ back! It was only when I posted on this thread that I’d written to John James, the editor of Totally T Type 2 that prompted any kind of real response from you.

In many of the emails between us the question of installation instructions was raised. You promised on half a dozen occasions to include them along with a timing card. I have yet to have anyone confirm they have ever seen a set of detailed & comprehensive instructions. To my knowledge they have never been included in anyone’s kit in spite of your promises to do so. I don’t believe they even exist. Based on the tiny packets of information pried out of you piece by piece I’ve tried to compile a set for the benefit of others. Early on I thought perhaps I could get you started & send you what I’d compiled. Now, after the frustrating experience of dealing with you, I just pass it on to people who have contacted me and are obviously still struggling.

Your continued assertion that the original spring seats (locators), retainers (caps), locks (keepers, collets) can be reused with your 1.440” kit springs is really annoying. We all know it isn’t so as I will clearly show here. Yet you continue to play the yes it is, no it isn’t game. It was only when I threatened to publish some of your emails that you were forced to retract your statement that you don’t advise anyone to grind the springs to make them fit. This is something else that caused expressions of surprise from customers & those in the know especially from the spring manufacturers & valve train specialists who described this as a “cowboy” approach.

The original lower locator or spring seat can’t be used with the 1.440” kit springs because the spring is the same diameter as the seat & is also the same diameter as the circular machined recess in the head. (See the first pic in this thread. That the locator can’t be used is clearly evident). This pic shows a Howard’s cap I’d had fitted to my head. Although of a suitable diameter in that it covers the outer spring & has very little play, it can’t be used because it has a 7 degree taper. This very important question of the taper I will deal with a little later. Eliminating the locator creates three problems. The recommended installed pressure can’t be achieved with the kit springs & the old retainer, the springs will gradually eat into the head due in no small measure to the increased pressures demanded by the roller lifters & there is nothing to precisely locate the spring. The purpose of the original seat is not only to locate but also to protect the head.

The fact that you have installed your retainers in the manner you’ve chosen to is utterly irrelevant except to confirm that you have little concern for your car & the fact that you continue to advise others to follow your lead, shows even less concern for your customers. Everybody I’ve spoken to who knows anything about the valve train is stunned that you would even consider installing, let alone selling, a spring that isn’t “snug” & be content to run it in your car or anyone else’s! Most if not all knowledgeable people believe anything over 1mm is way too much & state over 0.100” of slop is crazy, especially when you consider there is no lower locator! The kit spring & the original retainer do not sit well together for another important reason. The industry recommends a retainer must cover at least half the thickness of the outer coil. Have a look at the pics you’ve posted of the springs on your car & then tell me they comply.

When I informed any of the experts that I’ve consulted with that you had recommended to at least one customer to fit a 7 degree retainer with the original locks, I was greeted with surprise & shock. One spring manufacturer simply refused to believe that anyone involved in selling valve train components could make such a recommendation, insisting that it must be a typo! Even when I sent him your email (passed on to me by that owner clearly showing you recommending the 7 degree Comp Cams retainer), he simply couldn’t accept it, and remains convinced it had to be an unintentional mistake. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary I have formed the opinion that you have absolutely no idea what the taper of the original T series locks & retainers might be. I now know it is certainly 10 degrees & MUST NOT BE MISMATCHED IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! I would recommend in the strongest possible terms that owners who have installed & are currently running Fanelli supplied retainers with the original locks, satisfy themselves that they are 10 DEGREES NOT 7!!!

Whilst it’s true that you did mention to me to me in passing that most AM alloy rocker covers need to be ground because the oversize kit spring is fouled by the cover, this just further illustrates the need for detailed installation instructions, or better yet springs that DO fit!. Clearly the experience that Jim relates is proof of this. Obviously had the owner concerned been made aware of this he surely would have taken steps to prevent the springs knocking on the rocker cover?
You also imply that Peter Fogarty is totally happy with the service you’ve provided & that he is somehow an “agent” for your kit. I’m reluctant to speak for Peter however he like everybody else has nothing but praise for the cam but his private opinion as to whether he shares many of the concerns that I’ve detailed above is a matter for Peter to express. As he doesn’t have a computer he has not read your comments. As such he is hardly in a position to refute them. Apart from myself there are 3 other people I know of here who are of a like mind.

I should also mention that you’ve offered to refund my kit & I have declined, requesting that you just refund the springs. As I said earlier my research indicates the Chet Herbert cam is terrific. I have outlaid an additional $460 in shipping, transfer & bank charges thus far, so incurring additional expense shipping the items back to you, with no guarantee that you will honor your statement, makes even less sense than buying your kit in the first place. When I have purchased suitable springs, retainers & locators I’ll advise you of the cost, including shipping your springs back to you. I would ask then that you reimburse me for what I consider to be that avoidable & unnecessary outlay. Once the head is sorted I’ll then tackle the installation of the cam. If I experience any difficulty that I feel I should have been advised of, rest assured I will make my thoughts known. I also feel the real reason you’ve offered the refund is not because of any concern for me but simply to get me out of your hair. Sorry Len but I’m not for sale.

I have managed to find locally made dual springs & matching locators that are due to arrive by express post today. These are 1.300” OD, have an installed pressure of 160lbs @ 1.800” & an open pressure of 280 lbs. I sent as much information as I could to the manufacturer & was fortunate in that he had an overrun of about 100 springs from a previous large order. As I’ve gone to considerable trouble to find these items & as there are only about a dozen sets left I won’t identify the source here. (If anybody is interested in purchasing a set & is a regular contributor to this forum please contact me offline & I will pass on the details so that you can deal with the manufacturer direct).

In closing I would like to apologize to the readers & contributors to this forum for introducing an element of negativity into what is almost always a cheerful & positive platform. Apart from what I’ve expressed above I have no personal feelings for Len one way or the other or any interest in seeing his business either succeed or fail. My sole motivation was & is to share my experience so that others may avoid the pitfalls I’ve encountered if planning to travel down the same road. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Find some other forum, Peter. Bud
Bud Krueger

Come on guys, deal with this on your own. Don't start yet another long winded thread. It clutters the forum. I'm sure others agree, no?
Ed
efh Haskell

Peter,

I have both Len's cam and roller rocker kit. While installation of both required some adjustments here and there they do what they are supposed to do and I commend Len for doing his best to provide a service for our LBC's. He may not be a great communicator but he is honest.

If you have a beef with him take it up directly, the forum is not the appropriate place to air one's dirty laundry.

Thank You,
Jim
Jim Neel

Well, Well, As a potential customer for the roller cam, I for one fully appreciate Peter bring this issue to this forum! There's no other place to raise these technical concerns.
Don't kid yourself about Len's ability to communicate if he wants to. Prior to this thread, all that one needed to do was post a cam topic in this or any other forum and you could almost guarantee that Len would jump in and paste one of his advertisements about the wonders of his roller cam.
Asking future customers to pay an extra $200 plus dollars for springs to replace those in the kit just doesn't make me run to the post office to send him a check. For some of us the $1400 plus was already a decision making point of interest.
All of you who have the kit installed with some adjustments here and there feel the pain I'm sure, but you people should be the most grateful someone finally stood up and said "That Enough"! because sooner or later you will need to fix it.
Obviously, Peter was frustrated and over - the - top in some ways but Thanks Peter,--- You saved me from making a big mistake while this technical issue gets resolved or it goes away all together.

The only thing remaining as far as I'm concerned is for Len to jump in with a responsive technical fix for this spring and retainer problem. If not, all of his communication and advertising skill won't cover this up again.
Richard Cameron

Surely this forum is for good and bad experiences. Len can respond and give his side of the story.
Max Irvine

Hmmm... now I see why this was somewhat contentious. It's all a learning experience right? I'll file this away under >>> Win Megabucks >>> install supercharger >>> install roller cam >>> buy girlfriend really nice present >>> sell car >>> retire to tropical paradise
Geoffrey M Baker

When I bought the kit I recognized the issues with the springs and put the kit on the shelf until I could get the time to try and resolve them. I thought Peter did an excellent job getting up to speed on this potentially serious problem and coming up with a solution. I thought it was a great thread and everyone who has one of these kits can benefit through a retro fit if they heed the info Peter came up with. Without this thread, I would have had to spend a lot of my time trying to come up with a solution and probably would not have been as successful as Peter. Its a shame it was deleted as other owners will no longer be able to benefit and their cars may suffer in the long run.
c mac quarrie

This thread was discussed between 15/04/2014 and 19/04/2014

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