MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Can I remove this broken screw?

I betcha I know the answer. But maybe there's a miracle cure that I don't know about.

I broke a 2BA screw that holds the stay bar bracket to my TF radiator. I lubed it with penetrating oil and thought that I rotated it forward and back a little right before I told myself that I felt it getting "squishy." Then it broke. I doubt that it ever moved.

The bracket will hold with only the one remaining screw, but the connection is only half as strong.

The broken tip is only about a quarter inch from the radiator fins.

Don't want to unsolder the steel side panel from the brass radiator.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Drill into the centre and use an easyout. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

As Peter suggests or... I will center punch the broken screw/ bolt. This give you a starter so the drill bit doesn’t walk around and it will also serve to shock the threads. I then use a small drill bit and then progressively step up the drill size. Continue to use a lubricant as the material warms up from drilling it will aid in penetrating the threads Once you get close to the threads the remaining material usually breaks loose and can be fished out. Since it is not a blind hole you’ll be able to chase the threads easily. I also find that dentistry type picks can be used to lift the remaining loosened thread material from the hole.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Another way is to centre punch then use a LH turning drill bit, with your drill set to run in the reverse direction. This is often enough to remove the stub of a bolt on its own. If not, use an EZ out.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Hi Lonnie, Above great suggestions. Do you have a drill press that the radiator would fit in? That would be a lot safer than doing by hand. George
George Butz III

Suggestion -
Centrepunch it and check that you are centred
Work out how deep the thread is by checking the good hole there
Drill through with a 2mm drill to the depth
A piece of metal brake line cut to length fitted over the drill to stop you going too far
Then same again with a 4mm drill with a tube set to length
Just check that the 4mm drill fits through your good thread ok to be safe--it should just slide through ok
Then after drilling at that you should be able to pluck the old thread out or run a tap through it

I doubt you would get it with an easy out if it's seized enough to snap off
William Revit

You guys have given me hope. Glad that I asked the question and didn't just give up. As long as I don't puncture the radiator core, there is nothing to lose by trying.

George - Yes. My drill press table will lower to accept the radiator, and the table is wide to give support. Just need to coerce some friends to help hold it.

William - Neat tip about using brake tubing as a stop. If I use my drill press, then I will use the stop on the chuck. Won't know how tightly the broken tip is frozen until I start drilling.

Bill - I'll use picks when I get close to the threads. Call me "Dr. Cook, DDS".

I'll see if a roll pin will fit into the slight recess to keep the bit centered(?)

Thanks again, I'll post an update when finished.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

If you have a Mig I would take a hard nut of a slightly smaller Id than what is there and center it over the broken bolt. Weld the inside of the nut to the broken remains. The heat will most likely free the remains and screw out fairly easy. If you don't put some heat to it you stand a good chance of breaking off an easy out. Just my two cents.
L E D LaVerne

Drill a small hole in the broken stud. It doesn't need to be in the centred. Then open out this hole with progressively larger drills until one side of the hole just touches the female thread. You can then use a small chisel to collapse the remaining part of the screw.

Jan T
J Targosz

There's no such thing as an "easy out". I used to sell tools and usually found that the "easy out" would either slip or break before most screws would come out. Besides, as the easy out tip went into the broken bolt or screw, the taper on the easy out would swell the screw and further jam it into the hole.

The best trick I ever found for drilling out a screw was to make a centering tool for a drill. A piece of steel or brass rod is drilled on one end just large enough to fit over the broken screw and about the same depth. On the other end drill a smaller hole to just fit a drill bit. The two holes in the rod need to be concentric with one another. The putting the tool over the broken screw, drill through the small hole. This will ensure you drill the broken screw concentrically. Using progressively larger drill bits you can drill out the broken screw with out danger of ruining the female threads.
Lew Palmer

How could you not want to try out Dave H LH drill bit and add this to your tool collection? :-)

https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Cobalt-64-Inch-Assortment-30520/dp/B0002NYBJG
Christopher Couper

Lonnie. I'd go with Bill Chasser and William Revit posting due to the proximity to the radiator core. Just take your time and generous use of penetrating oils.

Cheers

Gary
79 MGB

gary hansen

Lew and Willy. I've had no issues with using easyouts. I have 3 sizes in my drill box and providing the correct size drill bit is used, I've had no problems. The key is to ensure that most of the bolt has been drilled out. Centre punching is an essential prerequisite, as is using a succession of drill bits. I've always had success and have never snapped an easyout yet. A penetrating lubricant and some RP7 also aids removal. I also like LaVerne's MIG approach. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter
If the bolt had been broken while tightening it up then yes it would probably be free enough to remove with an easyout (the straight splined type seem to be the best compared to the lh spiral type)
But seeing as Lonnie's bolt was seized to start with, enough to break the bolt undoing it, then i doubt an easyout will get it,worth a try on the way but i don't hold much hope of it moving---soak ,soak , soak and try but i doubt success
William Revit

The secret Willy is as Jan says in using ever increasing sized drill bits until the easyout can deal with what remains. Too much too soon will result in a broken easyout. Then things get really difficult. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

As this bolt was likely never removed before and is just rusted in place, soak in penetrating oil. Unless it was cross threaded at the factory, that should help loosen the nub. George
George Butz III

One trick I use is a sharp tip punch. Put it just to the outer edge of the broken bolt and tap it counterclockwise. If it is not rusted in, it should loosen and come out.
Bruce Cunha

...and did you have success? If so, what method(s) did you employ?

Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Haven’t attempted to remove the screw yet. Prepping for engine installation next week. Will remove radiator afterwards, try to remove the screw, and paint radiator. Daily applications of penetrating oil.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie.
Try making a 50/50 solution of trans or powersteering fluid and MEK or laquer thinner.
This is many times more effective than any commercial penetrating oil.
Sandy
Sanders

I have had to sort out broken studs for over thirty years and believe me the tapered easy outs are the last thing you should use. They are hardened and if they break the only way out is spark erosion. Because they are tapered they expand the stud and make it tighter in the hole. The best way, if you can manage it, is to put a nut over the broken stud and MIG weld the two together. The heat will break the bond between the threads and the nut will allow you to use a decent spanner. If this is not possible drill a hole in the stud and then use progressively larger drills until you almost touch the female thread. If you have a die grinder you can use this to clean out almost all of the stud. It is best to collapse the remains of the stud with a small chisel. This will keep the female thread intact.

Jan T
J Targosz

The old Pickavant style extractor usually works, the broken stud is drilled and a taper spline bit is driven in and used to turn the broken piece. As Jan says the modern LH taper screw type just jams the piece even more. KS tools sell them now.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

This is the type of extractor that I use. The ones Illistrated are for larger bolts and studs, but I have a smaller set of the same type for screws, I don't have a picture of them. The most important thing using this type of extractor is having the proper drill bit size, most kits come with the drill bits included. Used properly they don't expand the broken stud. PJ


PJ Jennings

UPDATE: It's out!

I want to close out this thread by showing my successful removal of the 2BA broken screw that secures the stay bracket to the radiator on my TF.

I used Sandy Sander's magic penetrating oil on the broken screw for a few weeks and while drilling. (50-50 Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid.) It's become a standard go-to helper in the shop. Mix it as I need it because the Acetone evaporates fast.

I dimpled the center of the broken tip with a spring punch. I protected the radiator fins/pipes with a piece of thin metal between the screw tip and the fins. Then drilled into the screw with a 5/64" bit and progressed to a 1/8" bit. Not all the way through the screw.

I tried to move the screw with a cheap screw extractor. Didn't see any movement so I stopped before I could break it. I started drilling with a 5/32" bit. The bit grabbed the broken tip and ran it out of the mounting hole. The thin metal protected the fins and radiator from the tip and bit. Woo Hoo

Sandy's magic elixir was probably the key to the fix. The screw extractor may have broken it loose. Heat and vibration from drilling helped. And finally a lucky grab by the bit finished the job. The threads don't look damaged. I'll make a chase or buy a tap to clean the threads.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

"I used Sandy Sander's magic penetrating oil"

I smell a new commercial opportunity here. :-)

Congrats on getting the bolt out.
Christopher Couper

What I've learned over time when faced with a problem that I am capable of making worse, I put down my tools and walk away and come back another day.
Peter Dahlquist

I agree. I broke it in January. Removed it yesterday, May 8. I figured four month was long enough.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Yes, a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF indeed is the best rust buster I have ever found. When I used to work at the Home Depot, that was always my recommendation to customers looking to purchase Easy-Outs. When they came back they would invariably say it worked like a charm.
Lew Palmer

Good old brake fluid is a good penetrating oil substitute, just dont spill it on your duco.
G Evans

This thread was discussed between 09/01/2020 and 10/05/2020

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now