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MG TD TF 1500 - Cylinder Head - Installation

Hi guys. I have some more newbee questions.

I will to install the head on my TF-1500 next week.

The last time we installed it, there were two guys who knew MG T-series inside and out, plus a rookie ... me. This time there will be only me and any neighbor who I can coerce into helping, plus a Workshop Manual.

> How can I prevent the head from binding on the studs as we wiggle it onto the block?

> Should I use spray-on copper gasket sealer or use grease on the head gasket?

> Any suggestions to make the job easier?

> I have bolted the water outlet / thermostat housing onto the head. I believe that I shouldn't have attached them until the head is installed. Is that correct? I have extra gaskets if I need to remove and reattach.

> Should I use gasket glue on the water outlet and thermostat housing? If so, what?

> Any tips for connecing the lower hoses to the "Y", to the thermostat housing, to the water pump, and to the lower radiator outlet?

> Are the "period correct" wire hose clamps from Moss (#326-398) OK? Or should I use perforated worm gear clamps? All new hoses.

Thanks, once again, for your help.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie.
Did you remove head studs and taper the area around the stud hole?
Upper thread can pull up a slight bit and create a problem when re-installing the head.
I have always used a copper based spray on both sides of the gasket when new. If the radiator is stillin place it is easier to leave the housing off and install the top hose and then the housing to head. This eliminates thye squeeze inserting the upper hose.
Make certain that you have the proper head gasket with round holes (not banana)
Only one set of hands needed to instal head over the precleaned studs.Three or more create a problem.
Take care of Jeanie's TF.
Sandy
ss sanders

Lonnie, if you keep a level head & the head level it's actually dead easy & a lot of fun. Ensure both surfaces are spotless. Fit the rocker gear after the head is installed as there is less to worry about. You have more control if you lower the head with just one person. Hylomar is recommended on copper gaskets. Save the beer until you've finished. The housing is a useful thing to hold on to. I use aviation Locktite but the one that never goes hard as I always seem to be undoing things. Dow Corning make a silicon release agent which is totally compatible with rubber so I use that. Keep it original wherever you can so the wire hose clamps are fine. (You get less negative comments that way). Sounds scary but this is probably one of the easiest jobs you'll do on the car. You will need a torque wrench so beg, borrow or steal one & torque in stages as per the sequence shown in the WSM to 50 ft/lbs. Get yourself a set of Whitworth 1/2" drive sockets if you haven't already. Relax, enjoy & don't forget to shout your neighbour a beer when you're finished! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Another reason why heads don't always lower nicely is that the head studs have been removed in the past with pliers or pipe wrench. The ridges on the studs caused by these brutal tools are also dangerous because the studs are weakened, and are therefore much more likely to fail.

I sell ARP studs with some excellent improvements to the design - see mgtrepair.net.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

My opinion is to leave the head gasket bare. The last one I installed had a bit of sticky stuff already on it. If you do apply something, try to get it absolutely even. A high spot can cause trouble down the road.

I agree that having the outlet already installed makes it easier, but if your radiator is still in place then you will want to leave it off. Definitely use gasket sealer on the housing to block gasket. Aviation or RTV is good. Even the spray stuff seems to work well. There's no pressure but you want to prevent leaks through any imperfections in the castings.

Just my methods, others may disagree.
Steve S

TF system is pressurized Steve..not much though if he has a stock 4 LB cap.

I'm a fan of the spray Copper Kote...it will fill very small imperfections in the head and block that the gasket will not.

I have a couple of sets of the ARP studs and nuts on my bench for the next rebuild. Another advantage to these studs is they have a longer thread which is particularly useful if the head has been skimmed many times. In addition you can torque them to a higher number.
MG LaVerne

Whoops, I was thinking he had a TD. Obviously I never learned to read!
Steve S

ARP? Is that a brand Tom or a higher quality metal? Lonnie, I should have mentioned if you are replacing any studs or nuts it is recommended that you replace all 10. Reason being new nuts on old studs & vice versa will result in inacurate torque readings (undertorqued) because the threads on used nuts & studs will have stretched. (One of my nuts escaped & I only discovered this when I went to buy a replacement). Like Sandy I also used a larger diameter drill to remove any stretched block metal from around the base of the stud to a depth of about .020". (The studs act a bit like the way tree roots lift a concrete pavement around the trunk.) Before you refit the head take note of the finished thickness. If ever you want to work out the CR this will come in handy. You should now be able to proceed with confidence. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter - ARP is a California company, makers of the highest-quality hardware such as rod bolts, studs, etc. They have a large selection of materials and fittings for engines NASCAR, Indy, and racing engines especially, but the head studs and rod bolts I sell are my custom and proprietary parts. No-one else sells these parts made to my specs (the diameter of some ARP bolts on the market are potentially way too small...)

My head studs have a few advantageous features, much appreciated by engine builders: I have added 1/4" of threads, as LaVerne notes, to accommodate heads that have been re-surfaced multiple times. In the past one had to use a washer under a thinned head, which turns out not to be a good idea (unless your head is a Laystall Lucas head). I also have an Allen-hex engineered into the top, with which to tighten the stud, and avoid damaging the shaft of the stud on installation or removal. 90% of all original studs I see are thus damaged by pliers or a pipe wrench or cheap stud remover, and/or have stretched threads. That practically guarantees an uneven torque, and has led to blown head gaskets.

One guy blew a head gasket, had the head re-surfaced and blew it again, had the BLOCK re-surfaced, but he noticed something wasn't right as he tried to torque down the studs. They felt uneven, some seeming to tighten more than others, so I suggested he was stretching the threads (the weakest part of the stud). I sent him a set of my studs to try, and no further problems. I also sell hardened 12-point nuts, which really make the head really solid and secure.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom,
Sure sounds like you have thought of everything !!

Steve
Steve Wincze

Use copper spray coating, bare may be fine if brand new perfect machined surfaces. With likely less than perfect surfaces and some of the suspect Chinese headgaskets, coat it really well. Use aviation Permatex on outlet parts, no danger of a piece of it flaking off and plugging up a passage like with RTV. I use Armor-All to lube the hoses before sliding on. George
George Butz

Steve - With every MGT Repair product I try to offer racing-quality parts that are perfectly suited to street cars. I'm particularly pleased with the head stud design, and have sold nearly a hundred sets with 100% satisfaction.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Thanks, guys. That's exactly what I needed to know. You are building up my confidence.

A few more questions:

+++ TORQUE
I have 3/8" drive Whitworth sockets, so I'll use my 3/8" torque wrench. What torques do you recommend for my used bolts?
>> The WSM says headbolt torque = 500 in-pounds (42 ft-pounds)
>> Dave DuBois' site says headbolt torque = 50 ft-pounds
>> Dave also says 8mm rocker tower bolts = 19 ft-pounds
>> And 10mm rocker tower bolts = 43 ft-pounds
>> Should I torque the head bolts and rocker assembly dry, or should I use anti-seize or oil on the threads? Is there a different torque setting for lubricated threads?

+++ SEALANT
1) What sealant do you recommend for the side cover over the cam followers and pushrods?
2) Should I use a thread sealer on the bolts for the rear cover plate, for the water outlet, and for the thermostat housing? Most of the holes are open to the coolant. If so, what brand/type?

My progress:

My radiator is still in the car, so I removed the water outlet and thermostat housing.

Deep down, I know that I should have replaced the head bolts, but I don't trust my abilities to remove without snapping one off. I filed the rough areas on the bolts to help them slip though the bolt holes in the head. I'll slap on some grease to help. Obviously, I did not get to relieve any heave on the block around the bolts.

I'll buy a can of Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket Hi-Temp Adhesive Sealant for the head gasket, and a bottle of Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket No. 3 Sealant for the water outlet and thermostat housing. I don't use sealant on the water outlet on my '54 truck. But it is a lot easier to get to than the parts on the TF.

I'm finishing up some details in the engine bay, so I should be able to get the head on by Wednesday. My exhaust manifold and clamps were metalized with aluminum by American Stripping in Sacramento and should arrive early next week. Our club's next outing is on June 21. Looks like I am on track to make the outing!

Thanks again for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

This thread was discussed between 07/06/2014 and 09/06/2014

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