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MG TD TF 1500 - Door Hinge Screws

I’m presently looking into the correct screws for the door hinges. 16 are definitely ¼” BSF slot head C/S, as described on CC's site, however the third screw for the top hinge is somewhat smaller than ¼”. I checked with the next imperial size down (3/16”) which is too small for the counter sink in the hinge. I have also tried this on my 4 complete sets of used but original, unmolested hinges with the same result. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the third screw in the top hinge was actually a wood screw which perhaps had a different head size & did fit into the smaller hole. As I’m eliminating wood screws completely in the doors, I plan to make these two holes the same size as the other 16. I’m also fitting a ¼” tapped plate top & bottom at the rear of the B pillar to secure these hinge screws. Once I'm happy that the door is closing perfectly, I'll weld these two plates into position. Minor adjustments, if required in the future, can be effected using the 8 points of adjustment that I now have on the lock & the 6 points on the striker. This was achieved by using threaded inserts, additional captive nuts & by eliminating the use of wood screws entirely. BSF slots in the correct length are hard to find so I’m using Whitworth. Shouldn’t be a problem as only the head is seen. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Yes, the third screw is a flat headed slotted wood screw. I will try to remember to update the page for that.

Just put one in that fits the hole slightly recessed (#10?) and is 1 1/4" long or close to that.

Let me know if those two dimensions see correct as I am doing it from memory.
Christopher Couper

Hi Peter,

This topic has been discussed before. You need to be very careful if you are fitting flat, threaded plates to the insides of the door pillars. The holes through wooden pillar are rarely at 90degs to inner metal frame and what you really need to do is drill and tap the plates in with.

Jan T
J Targosz

As I can't find a machine screw with a slot head that fits the smaller hole Chris I'll drill it out to the 1/4" size. If the originality police spot that then good luck to them! Sorry Jan but I don't get "in with". If you mean within the existing metal at the back of the wooden B pillar, I don't think it's thick enough to carry a thread. The holes in the timber will be slightly larger than the machine screw to allow for some initial adjustment so I don't see a problem. I'm using the hinge holes to ensure the holes in the 1/4" plate I plan to use have exactly the same relationship. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter,
if you view "MG TD Bodybuild" 30 mins in on youtube you will see how haphazardly the doors are bolted to the body. That is the way Hutsons do it and probably Carbodies did it the same way.
The plate Jan refers to is a separate plate drilled and tapped in place, it means you can remove the doors without removing the trim. I have a removable pin in the door stay to facilitate this. Makes life much easier if you have to dive into the footwell to do anything.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Peter: I don't think anyone will know or care. Here is my opinion on why the third screw is in the hinge and why its a wood screw:

During assembly they wanted to minimize the amount of workers for any step in the process and also reduce damage during assembly. Trying to hang the door with through bolts and get everything aligned without the door falling off is just about impossible with one person, or at the minimum it would take a lot of time.

However if you quickly mount the door into position and just have it hang in a minimally secured manner while you get the bolts all in place, aligned and tightened with one person doing this, that is the goal. So you add a simple wood screw to the top hinge to hold the door in place during assembly. Later it becomes an artifact but so what?
Christopher Couper

I think Christopher has it.

....
MAndrus

Thanks guys. Ray I also intend to use a separate tapped plate with the ability to float a little initially until the screws are tightened, as indicated above. I fully intend to have adjustable doors without removing the trim & to also fit the removable pin in the door stay. I've had a look in the archive on the door stay/check & as there are some unanswered questions there on that topic I'll have more on that a bit later, once I'm happy with the doors. Chris I've had the door on & off a few times on my own now simply by removing the hinge pins & I found this very easy to manage on my own. Eliminating the redundant wood screw & replacing it with another machine screw will enable a greater degree of security at the top hinge which has to be a good thing. However I was wondering what an acceptable gap would be at the rear of the door between the overlapping part of the door skin & the body? It seems somewhere between just clearing & about 2mm, when closed, should be OK? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
If your screws are NOT reasonably normal to the door post then The heads of the screws must bend at a complementary angle to be flat wit the surface of the hinge. Thus using a tapped plate will mean that you must turn the slotted screw head. This is impossible if you are going to "Set" the head angle to be flush since you will be bending and unbending the screw head.

I started with tapped plates and after the first screw was ruined, I cleaned out the plates and went with nuts and angled washers, that is washers that are tapered so the nut is working against a flat surface to pull in the head of the screw.

(See picture)

In retrospect, I should have plugged the original crooked holes and drilled new normal ones, but I did not want to change the door fit from what it originally was.


Jim B.


JA Benjamin

Wow! That is one extreme angle Jim & I can see why you had an issue. My hinges appear to be parallel with the B pillar & the screws emerge at the rear at a right angle so I hope I won't have the problem that you experienced. If so I'll do as you suggest. Allowing some wiggle room in the timber holes should also enable me to get the screws at a perfect right angle to the pillar. Thanks mate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Over time the timbers kind of shifted and many people have a hard time getting their machine screws out because the have S turned inside the timbers.

Drilling them out like you are going to do Peter will help. At the end of the day you are pretty limited on where the door hinges goes though based on the cutouts of the hinge slots.
Christopher Couper

Hi Peter,

I meant to say in situ (my computer changes things I write at will) This would take into account the screw not being normal to the plate. I don't think opened out holes are a good idea. I did this on my M Type MG and despite screwing the nuts really tight the door still moved after closing at number of times. I eventually sorted the problem by removing one screw at a time, filling the hole with epoxy putty and redrilling for a tight fit. I also thought a wood screw was used since there is insufficient clearance for a nut to be used at the rear.


Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

I like the one hole at a time idea Jan as having snug holes will certainly add to the rigidity of the fixings. My threaded plate should also ensure a better result than a nut & washer especially as it can't move once welded into its final position. The hinge recess in the tub skin also effectively traps the heads of the machine screws. You're right about the wood screw hole being pretty close to the tub skin however my template suggests that there is just enough room to tap the plate, but maybe not enough for a nut. If not I'll fill the hole in the timber & fit a wood screw. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I think there will be a problem with tightening the screws adequately. The various layers of metal and wood will compress somewhat, and if not really tight the door will end up flopping up and down and loosening. Tightening a nut on the inside is what really compresses and locks everything into place. I think a solid backer plate with nuts/washers a much better way to go. The screw holes are not parallel and/or exactly 90 degrees to the plate either. George
George Butz

Noted George. If I find I'm unable to tighten the screws into the plate as you suggest, I can easily revert to the nut & spring washer method. The screws I'm using are overlong so I can also use the double nut concept to tighten & compress everything together. The nuts can then either remain or be removed. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 01/07/2015 and 02/07/2015

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