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MG TD TF 1500 - Dropping Sump with Lip Seal

Just caught a catastrophe before it happened. I just found a loose fulcrum pin in the sump. It's not the pin that's the issue, it's the loose nut that's in the sump. This is the pin that the clutch lever rotates about. I'll be on my 83 year old back under Lazarus doing this. (Actually, I won't be 83 until Sunday.)

Anything that I may have to attack besides loosening the exhaust system? Hopefully, the RTV that I put onto the seal about 2 months ago will be willing to leave go of its grip and just drop the sump once all of the bolts are removed. It's a shame, the seal was behaving perfectly. No leaks from the front of the engine. Bud
Bud Krueger

Hi Bud,

Whilst you have everything dismantled check the diameter of the stub on the pulley that the lip seal rotates against. I bought a seal from a T Series parts supplier and fitted it straight out the box (or I should say plastic envelope ) and after assembly I found drips on the floor. After dismantling a second time and measuring the pulley journal I found the supplied seal was 1 m/M too big. I was able to buy one from a local bearing supplier for literally pence and the drips were cured. You can read the diameter of the seal from its face. The numbers are millimetres.

Have a good birthday

Jan T
J Targosz

If vertical oil filter, removing filter and pipe to block would give you more bolt and general access on the left side. Check that the hole in the pan was not elongated or hogged out. I used a scissors jack from another car to raise the pan back in to place. Good luck! George
George Butz III

That is horrible job to do on your back under the car. I had to do much the same thing but never got the sump to seal as well as it had before, when I rebuilt the engine out of the car on a stand.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Jan, the sealing has been perfect. Hopefully, I'll be able to return it to a similar state.

It's a horizontal filter, George. I recall finding the nut to be loose a long time ago when I was rebuilding the engine. Thought I'd tightened it up pretty well. I'll see.

You're right, Dave. I put the new seal in that way a couple of months ago. Last time I removed the radiator, etc., to get at the timing cover. The front end seal was outstanding. Bud
Bud Krueger

cut a screwdriver slot in the two bolts above the clutch pivot pin after you get them out. It makes them easier to refit.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Hi Bud,
Happy B-day Sun., that's mine also. Your back is 7 yrs older than mine ;-)
We share that date with several other notable folks which I remember -- Ann Margaret, Howard Cosell, Aretha Franklin, plus 2 personal friends of mine.
best to you,

Al Parker
1954 TF "Emma"
Al Parker

The sump is now on the bench. You hit it, George. The hole that the fulcrum mounts in is sloppy. The castle nut was still in place with the cotter pin. There are 2 washers on the threaded end, closest in is a fiber washer (to act as an oil seal, I guess), between it and the castle nut is a flat washer. Makes no sense. The castle nut/cotter pin can only be set to an adequate torque by grinding down the nut until a setting is found that can be locked by a cotter pin.

27'ish years ago, when I rebuilt the engine, I swapped the unused fulcrum from the sides of the sump. I probably used the same hardware that came with the sump. Now, looking at the Service Parts List in AKD834, I see a different arrangement, just 1 washer, probably a lock washer according to A/S catalog. That makes sense. You could crank enough on the castle nut to hold it in place and then put in the cotter pin. The drawing on Plate H of AKD834 looks like a lock washer. It's an X25138. The A/S catalog calls it a PWN105. It's going to be a lock washer when I put it back together.

A new sump gasket should be here from A/S on Wednesday.

Bud
Bud Krueger


Bud all of my TD car oil pans had a medium thick solid steel washer under the castellated nut (small enough in diameter to fit recess in casting) and cotter pin. I guess they were solid to also seal the pivot pin. Yes, most had quite a bit of torque to set the cotter pin alignment.
Richard Cameron

Thanks, Richard. I've got a classic cigar box full of washers that just might have one of the right thickness. I'll start hunting. If not I'll find a thick one and start sanding. Bud
Bud Krueger

Washer a must. If the hole is sloppy with the new pin, maybe use some JB weld at assembly to help prevent movement. The new pin/nut may well have one of the split self locking type nuts. George George
George Butz III

If the hole is sloppy, I would likely re bore to true the hole and press in a bushing.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Found a lock washer of an ideal size to match the castle nut in a position of significant torque to hold the fulcrum pin. The castle nut on the other side of the sump is much thicker than the loose one and is fitted to a thick flat washer. I tried to loosen it with a 1/2" ratchet with no luck. Put a new cotter pin and let it be.

When I installed the fulcrum I gave it a thin coat of J-B Weld just before I torqued it in place.

Now I have to wait for tomorrow's delivery of a new sump gasket. Bud
Bud Krueger

This thread was discussed between 19/03/2018 and 20/03/2018

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