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MG TD TF 1500 - Engine Rear Mount Too Tall - TF

I need some advice to attach the rear engine mount to the gearbox in my TF. I won't put the gearbox back into the car until I can attach the mount.

I can't get my new engine rear mount support rubbers (Moss #281-408) to compress enough to bolt the fork (Moss #411-030) to the support bracket (Moss #411-020). The rubber is new. The fork, bracket, and cupped washer are original.

The support rubbers are fully seated onto the gearbox and into the support bracket. I used two bar clamps to squeeze the gearbox to the bracket. With a lot of clamp pressure, I can get the nut onto the threaded section of the fork if I don't use the rebound rubber between the nut/washer and the bracket. It ain't gonna compress any more, but I need another 1/4" to use the rebound rubber.

The mounting "eye" in my rear case was broken. I replaced the broken case with one that is in tact. I don't want to break the new case by trying to squeeze something that can't be squeezed.

What can I do?

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Use a bench grinder (like you would use to sharpen mower blades), and carefully remove some rubber. I had the same problem. George
George Butz

Lonnie ,
Give Moss a call,, explain the problem and see what they say,,,
I believe one of the problems is that the "rubber" that they all use, really isn't rubber,, it's something else that doesn't act like rubber.
George has been tr=htough this and his suggestion is very good,,,
You might try heating it up in HOT water,,, then try it as you did without the >>rebound rubber between the nut/washer << and see if it will compress more in this heated condition,,, if it does, let it stay that way till it cools off to see if it sets up..
it might work,,

Steve
Steve Wincze

Really crazy how some of these parts fit or not! I put the same new rubbers in mine and everything went together without modifying a thing. Who knows. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Moss does have a reputation I've learned not having good rubber parts so I've avoided them. In fact, I've been buying most of my parts from Abingdon Spares.

I was able to find NOS rubber mounts on Ebay. Popped right in and fit perfect.
Frank Cronin

I don't remember where I got mine as it's been almost 5 years ago, but I'm pretty sure they didn't come from Moss. They might have been an ebay buy or B&G. PJ
Paul S Jennings

First step is to buy the rubber pads from Abingdon. I have had to use a jack against the frame hoop to compress the transmission just enough to start the nut on the threads of the mounting fork. Rubber from Abingdon has ASL cast in to the rubber, and lasts infinitely longer.
David
D. Sander

What is ASL - I got American Sign Language when I googled it :-)
Dave
D Moore

Try www.abingdonsparesllc.com/ It's Abingdon Spares Ltd. Bud
Bud Krueger

I sure don't want to pull the gearbox again. So, I'll buy new mounts from AS and I will also grind the old ones from Moss. That will give me two chances to get it right. If the parts arrive and all goes well, I may be able to install the gearbox next weekend.

> Should the nut on the fork fit loosely against the cupped washer and rebound rubber, or should I need to crank it down pretty tightly to insert the split pin? Heaven knows that I don't want to break the eye on the rear case ... that's why I replaced the old rear case and started this whole project.

I know that the rubber mounts must thick enough to prevent the bracket from contacting the gearbox case.

Why did they make the threaded part of the fork so short??!!??

Thanks for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

You want to turn the castled nut just far enough to get the split pin in. I think you will find that the transmission is nice and tight. F.W.I.W. I prefer to drill a hole and put a 1/4" bolt through the split pin. This is much stronger than the weak casting eye in the transmission case.
When it is all assembled the modification is not visible. Your original eye will probably hold up ok, mine first broke in a wreck before I got the car. I welded it, and it broke again after several years of use.
-David
D. Sander

Here is the conclusion of my "too tall" rear mount:

My new rear mount support rubbers and rebound rubber from Abingdon Spares arrived today. It fits.

"Support Rubber, Pair" #17 002, $19.95
"Rebound Rubber" #17 004, $4.10

The support rubbers appear to be the same size as those from Moss, but they may sit a sixteenth inch lower. The primary difference is the thickness of the rebound rubber ... A/S is at least an eight inch thinner and it compresses even more. (The Moss mounts were at least a quarter inch too tall.)

I chamfered the corners of the support rubbers to match the rounded corners inside the mounting bracket.

I told Moss that my mounts were too thick. They told me that they have not received any complaints about their mounts. They said that I could return them.

Thanks for recommending mounts from Abingdon Spares and for George's suggestion to grind off some rubber.

Lonnie
TF7211

Abingdon Spares "Support Rubbers" and "Rebound Rubber" installed:

LM Cook

Maybe an update to my "conclusion" ...

According to a diagram in the NTG Services catalog, I installed the rebound rubber updside down. (See Image)

I installed it with the center cylinder through the hole in the mounting bracket for the fork threads. The diagram shows the domed surface against the recess in the bracket and the center cylinder pointing downward with the dished washer against it.

> Which position is correct?

By the way, the Moss rebound rubber was square-cut vs. the Abingdon Spares and NTG rubber being domed.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

OK OK - disregard the previous posting. Must be an error in the NTG diagram.

The WSM shows the center cylinder of the rebound rubber (#4) pointing up and going through the hole in the mounting bracket. (See Image) That's the way that I installed the rebound rubber on my bracket. Make sense because it will keep the threaded stud of the mounting fork from rubbing against the bracket.

I'm gonna leave my rebound rubber as it is - - with the little center cylinder going through the hole in the bracket.

Lonnie
TF7211

Rebound rubber orientation in the WSM:

LM Cook

WONDERFULL!! ANOTHER PARTS SUCESS STORY FROM ABINGDON !!!!!!!!!!!

Keep up the good work !!!

Steve
Steve Wincze

Thank you from all of us at Abingdon Spares LLC.
Bud Krueger

Be sure to chamfer the corners of the support rubbers so that they don't contact the rounded inside corners of the support bracket (regardless of brand). This will allow the rubbers to rest firmly in the bracket. My gearbox sat over 1/8 inch higher in the bracket before I ground the corners.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

This post reminds me of the problem I came across when I was doing this job.
My rubbers were shot and I was missing parts at the connection so I bought the rubbers the metal connections and the metal support bracket that the rubbers sit in from Moss. When I came to installing the metal support bracket I had to take off the 2 metal parts in the attached picture. My TF didn't have the metal support bracket and I couldn't see how the rubbers would fit without.
Although I am sure I have put this all together properly as per the diagram in an earlier post I am wondering why this bracket was missing, what the parts in the pic are that are now spare and has anyone else had the same problem.
Can't see how the bracket fits with these parts!

D Lamb

In my limited experience, I belive that the two pieces in your photo were cut off of each end of the mounting bracket. They were then attached to the cross member so that the floorboard supports could be attached to them. The hole at the bottom accepts a 3/8" bolt through the mount and the cross member. The 1/4" nut welded to the top of the piece accepts the screw that secures the front of the floorboard supports.

Without the complete bracket, there was nothing holding the back of the gearbox / engine to the frame.

Lonnie
TF7211

The two pieces in this WSM diagram look to be separate pieces, but in fact, they are part of a single mounting bracket.

LM Cook

This photo of my mounting bracket shows that the end pieces are part of a single bracket.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

I recently saw some mounts that did not have one or both of the two outer pieces. One of the welds on my mount was broken. Perhaps the mount failed more often that I would imagine.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

D Lamb- Huh? "Cant see how the mount fits with these parts"? The part in your picture is part of the mount box/bracket, that as Larry says above indirectly bolts the tranny to the frame, as well as supporting the floorboard. I have seen a couple that the ends did indeed break off. I wonder if the outer "ears" were already on the car, and that is why the new assembly wouldn't fit? Larry, looking good! George
George Butz

I think what Lonnie is saying has to be correct these were attached to the chassis exactly where the support bracket now attaches and do indeed look identical to either end of the support bracket. But there is no broken weld on either or any indication of them being joined to anything else. I dismantled this 30 years ago and don't remember but there are 2 old rubbers. Could they have just been wedged in! Will look at piecing it together in the morning. Interesting that your pic Lonnie looks like they arnt joined to the cup the rubbers sit in.
D Lamb

FYI, I'm not part of A/S. Just a customer. I just sent them a link to the thread. Bud
Bud Krueger

George I think you must be right. Maybe the part that joined the gearbox dropped off but don't remember it being attached to the gear box and was surprised to see the support bracket that arrived from Moss because it resembled nothing I had ever seen on the car. Took a bit of working out also as the other 2 parts were attached where it should go. Thanks for your help. Our cars hold lots of mysteries.
D Lamb

Yes - The rubbers could have been wedged between the gearbox and the end pieces in your photo. The rubbers have a channel on two adjoining faces that trap the "wings" on the gearbox. The rubbers tighten against the wings as they settle into the angled ends of the bracket. See the wings in the "Image" below.

So, the end pieces and the rubbers could have prevented the gearbox from moving left-right. But with no way to secure the mounting fork on the gearbox, the gearbox could rise up, move forward and back, and rotate with torque.

It may look like they are not, but the ends are attached to the rest of the mounting bracket to form one unit.

WARNING - Take everything that I say with a grain of salt. I've only seen one MG gearbox in my life ... mine!

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Ok these are all the bits I remember used to secure the gearbox although as you say Lonnie it can't have been very secure. Brackets don't appear to have any markings that lead me to believe they were connected to anything but that doesn't mean they weren't and as you guys have seen these broke.
Through our conversation though I have confirmed in my own head that I do now have the gearbox secured correctly so thanks for that.
Regards Darryl and Happy Patrick's Day

D Lamb

This thread was discussed between 07/03/2015 and 17/03/2015

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