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MG TD TF 1500 - Flywheel Clutch Cover Pin

I recently supplied a flywheel to a customer who rightly pointed out that there is only ONE hole for a clutch cover locating pin! I have never seen this before and have no explanation for this - does anyone?

Is this likely to cause a problem?

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

There should be 2 dowel pins to center the transmission bell housing if that is what we're speaking of here. Is this a T series car or later? PJ
PJ Jennings

Tom, look at the figure on page E.2 of the TD & TF Handbook. You'll see that there is only one hole in the flywheel (shown at 6 o'clock) for the clutch cover dowel (Item #19). But, AKD834, Page F4, shows that 2 #19 dowels are required. Does anybody have a flywheel with 2 holes for clutch cover dowels? All of the flywheel images that I'm finding are only showing one hole. Puzzler. Bud
Bud Krueger

Hi

Flywheel on my 1950 TD two dowel pins.

Barry

B Bridgens

I had to run a single dowel once in a pinch, due to a modified clutch setup. There were no vibrations or other issues. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker if push comes to shove. The bolts fit the cover holes fairly tightly, or at least mine did on that car.
Steve Simmons

Sorry, my mistake, I thought we were talking about the alignment pins for the bell housing. I know you said flywheel, but assumptions are wrong sometimes. PJ
PJ Jennings

Tom, do you now have any TD superchargers for sale? Please respond to efhask at outlook dot com.
Thanks,
Ed
efh Haskell

I've got another flywheel with NO clutch cover locating holes or pins. Does anyone have an explanation for this? Does some other car use this same flywheel, in this different configuration?

I plan to bolt the cover to the flywheel, center it as best I can (there is a very small amount of play between the cover holes and the bolts), and then drill new holes for the cover locating pins.

Does that seem the best way to approach the problem?

Thanks in advance.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Not a T series example, but, funnily enough, and to add to the sum of human knowledge, I've been playing around with a Riley flywheel that has two dowels, but the MGB cover plate I'm using has three.

Therefore, I can only use one of the Riley dowels in a hole in the periphery of the MGB plate (there's nowhere for the other dowel to go). There is a little play as it pivots on the dowel and sources tell me the bolt holes are about 40 thou bigger than the bolts. However, I found it pretty easy to centralise, and whilst I haven't used it in anger yet I was planning a 20 thou sliver shim around one of the bolts opposite-ish to the dowel as an added bit of security, so Tom, in your case maybe two shims? What I was worried about is that the clutch cover might start to 'walk' with all of 55bhp trying to twist it!

BTW, MGA clutches still had only two dowels, but the MGB had three for some reason.

Peter Allen

Hi Tom, I have played with XPAG motors for over 50 years. I have never seen a flywheel from TC, Y-Type, Morris 10 or Wolseley without two dowels to locate the clutch cover. However, I did once have an incomplete 1500cc 1948 HRG with 8" Borg and Beck clutch. I remember being intrigued that its clutch and flywheel had NO dowels! I imagine the cover was centralised by snug fitting bolt holes? If I fitted such a clutch, I would "dummy" fit it and see if there is any "slack" when the bolts were not quite tight. If there was any slack, I would try to apply torsional load (in the direction it is loaded in service) while I tightened the bolts.

Cheers from South Australia,
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

If there's any slack in the clutch cover plate fixing holes (and no dowels) then the slack is in all directions, which means you've either got to get bolts with a shoulder which fit the holes within a thou or three, or as I mentioned earlier, have some shimming arrangement. As Steve found above, it may well be that even without one or more dowels the bolts (5/16 BSF?) hold the cover tight.

Maybe in the HRG case the tolerances were much closer, but these are all Borg & Beck clutches designed for a variety of applications, hence the number of spare holes around the periphery of the cover plate (certainly on the MGB one).
Peter Allen

Bob Schapel - Oddly, this is the second flywheel I have had with NO clutch cover locating pins or holes. In every other respect they were identical to late XPAG/XPEG flywheels for the 8" clutch. I agree that it is most peculiar, and I have no explanation for it.

I sold one without noticing that the pins were absent, and the buyer had new holes drilled at my expense. I will drill this second one for pins myself.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Hi Tom,
Yes, A good idea to fit the dowels. Then there is no slack and the clutch can be balanced to suit ... always the same, even if dismantled and reassembled.

Hi Peter,
Yes, slack is in all directions, but if torsional load is applied, the cover plate will centralise better than if no load is applied. If no dowels exist, doing this might be better than nothing. A small tin can lying inside a large tin can will sit at the bottom, and does not touch the sides. It centralises (horizontally) to a degree. Each hole is like a big tin can, and each bolt is like a small tin can.

Cheers,
Bob
R L Schapel

Bob, I get what you're saying: The screw will find the lowest part of the curve of the hole and stay there because the cover plate has twisted in the direction the flywheel is revolving. Therefore, in this case having no dowels would be better than just one, where the cover plate could potentially twist out of kilter around the lone dowel.

BTW, installing dowels where there have been none would be such a precise job, I'm not sure I'd want to take it on. If one's relying on the accuracy of the cover plate to use as a guide, I don't think I'd bother and instead just rely on the aforementioned screw only method.
Peter Allen

In the past with engine and gearbox out I found that offering gearbox to flywheel so that first motion shaft just located in crank then ensuring clutch against the flywheel. Tighten clutch cover so that it can still just be moved. Move clutch cover from side to side and up and down until until equidistant from edge of flywheel. When happy remove gearbox lightly torque clutch cover. Replace gearbox to ensure all OK. Remove gearbox and drill through cover to mark flywheel and remember to position dowels to retain balance. Remove cover and fit dowels in and reassemble. Long winded I know but have had to carry this out a couple of times over the years.
JK Mazgaj

This thread was discussed between 10/08/2021 and 24/10/2021

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