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MG TD TF 1500 - Fuel Tank End Panels

Painting the fuel tank end panels. Where is the paint supposed to end? Some say only on the flat area, others say half way up the edge trim. How did they come from the factory? PJ
Paul S Jennings

To the edge.

Frank Cronin

I have not quite figured out how to do this yet. There is no hard lip on the chrome part that would indicate tape was used. Best guess is that they laid the part flat and then sprayed from the center out. When it was all done they might have had to take some lacquer thinner and wipe the chrome a bit.

Here is the other angle to show you what I mean.

Note: You really only had to be careful on the top and rear sides as the other never shows.

Christopher Couper

I wonder what their point was in painting them this way? I would think the edge, also being chrome, would be exposed, as there's no protection for the paint on the edge. Being chrome, the paint is probably easy to chip. PJ
Paul S Jennings

The coconscious seems to be as Chris shows as "correct".
When I did mine I went to "flat inner" as I thought it looks better and less chance of chipping.

I studied a lot before doing my car ...but in the end went with what I liked over what was correct for a number of things.
Brass door hinges, contrasting body piping, and a number of other thing I know are "wrong", but just appealed to me.

From what I have seen so far, your restoration has been one of the most correct I have ever seen and to that I say "Well Done"!

Look forward to seeing pic's of it at Pebble Beach!

Cheers,
David
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

To the edge.

The paint was sprayed at an angle. It did not matter if paint went over the edge on the body and lower side, just so long as the 'seen' edges were good. That is why you can not see 'any' edge against the body in Franks pic of TF9052.
The paint on the end plates in my pic is the factory paint.

Matthew.

M Magilton

The gas tank end panel paint is another case of the original, as it left the factory correctness becoming lost as these cars are being restored.
When the cars are repainted, people painstakingly paint the flat of the gas tank, leaving the chrome bead and flange chrome. I have done this on three cars. It looks better, and correct, but it is NOT original.
When the cars we painted at the factory, the entire end panel was painted, with the exception of the chrome face on the back and top of the tank panel.
This is one of many details that is becoming "lost" with restorations, and one of the reasons I created The New England MG "T" Register's T series Survivor Challenge.
After spending an enormous amount of time discussing why "THE MG CAR COMPANY" threshold plates, bright brass ID tags with freshly engraved engine and chassis numbers, black canvas and vinyl tops, wire wheels, brass door hinges and wooden dashboards on TDs, and many other points believed to be concourse correct, I realized I was losing the battle and something needed to be done to expose and document the few original cars that still exist.
I have spent countless hours debating the "Correctness" of the survivor challenge cars. I have had many people challenge the originality of these cars, and wrongly accuse them of being non-original, by comparing them with non-correct restored cars.
I strongly encourage anyone restoring a TC, TD or a TF to study the Survivor Challenge cars and use them as a benchmark for originality. The whole concept of the Survivor Challenge was to document and display what was factory correct as a service to those who are embarking on a quest to restore cars to an original state.
Fortunately, all of the participants in The Survivor Challenge are open to having their cars studied.
David
D. Sander

Seeing how my car is not concourse material, due to the color for one, Jag Regency Red and wrong color interior, I think I'll do the flat area and leave the edges in chrome. If the factory painted everything, I wonder why they chose a chrome plated panel? PJ
Paul S Jennings

Well truth be told there is a fair amount of labor in taping off the edge the way you are going to do it (and the way most of us did prior to discovering the 'truth').

So I suspect it was just a cost savings action.
Christopher Couper

Woops, I guess I miss that one. I'll leave it that way because I like it better.

Bill
TD24570

Bill Brown

Judging from what I found on my own car I don't think the panel was originally chrome plated. On my car only the top edge was really chrome plated, not even the entire bead-and there was no chrome on the back section that does not show. I am guessing that many TF's have replacement end panels that are chromed all over from previous restorations.
JB
J K Barter

I did like David, Some things I liked over factory.
I had my entire end panels chromed all over, I really like the look. The chrome reflects the color of the paint, makes them look as if they are painted.
Larry Brown

Gordon Clark has an all original MG-TF. Maybe he will share his chrome ends with you.
Sandy
ss sanders

Maybe it's just a southern thing but I'm with Larry. My TD came from the PO with fully chromed end caps and I didn't kn ow that was not "correct" until I read it on this BBS some time ago. I like it and don't plan on changing it. Let the next P(resent)O paint 'em if she want to.

Jud (South Carolina)
J K Chapin

After reading these posts I'm still a tad confused. It appears it's possible to draw a number of different conclusions. Matthew's pic seems to show the entire panel painted, edge & all but I'm probably reading it incorrectly. David says " ... leaving the chrome bead and flange chrome. I have done this on three cars. It looks better, and correct, but it is NOT original." The next bit I don't get "When the cars were painted at the factory, the entire end panel was painted, with the exception of the chrome face on the back and top of the tank panel." Does this mean that some of the edge was painted & some of it wasn't? Where does the paint stop & the chrome start? Paul's question is a good one. If the entire thing was painted then why bother to chrome it at all? Matthew, if some part of the panel is exposed chrome it would be great if you could post a pic clearly showing that? Is Chris's pic correct with just the visible edge of the panel left chrome & the wet paint gently wiped into nothing to prevent a hard edge? Pauls first post asks an interesting question "I wonder what their point was in painting them this way? I would think the edge, also being chrome, would be exposed, as there's no protection for the paint on the edge. Being chrome, the paint is probably easy to chip." To use the words of one very embarrassing Australian could someone "Please explain?" Just exactly how was it originally done? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

Some of your issue is your interpretation of what Matthew is calling the back and bottom of the panel. What Matthew is calling the back of the panel is the edge closest to the tub when you are viewing the car from the rear.

Both sections of the panel are hidden from view therefore the fact that it is fully painted in those areas has no consequence on the vehicles appearance.

I struggle with the ability to get paint to adhere to a chromed surface. It is difficult to obtain a satisfactory result on a flat surface let alone a curved one. For that reason I masked my panels and left the curved ridge unpainted. Even doing so I had paint lift in a small section close to the rib, literally a pain in the bum.

If you are still interested in some speedo parts contact me.


Graeme
G Evans

I should have explained my photo a bit more, the edge closest to the camera is the body-tub edge which is not normally seen, so they were not bothered by having the paint go over that edge.
The workers sprayed about 19,200 end plates (for TF alone) so they did not need to be fiddling with bits of tape. Maybe just a quick wipe along the exposed edges with a thinner soaked rag. Their speed and efficiency would probably make our heads spin.
Yes, it is a bit odd that so much chrome was covered up, but that was Abingdon's choice.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Thanks Matthew. So I guess Chris Couper's approach is as near as we are ever going to get to the method that was originally used as far as the end plates go. This now gives us all something to emulate. Thanks guys. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

SO, How do you prep chrome for paint to stick without damaging the chrome around the edge? Will an etching primer work? PJ
Paul S Jennings

That's what I used on my chromed rocker cover & breast plate after giving it a good going over with a wire brush on the drill press. Here I would heavily tape off the chromed area you want to protect & scuff up the chrome before applying the etching primer. Sand it back & etch again for good measure. Seemed to work on the parts on my car that were chromed by Harry the Hoon in the late sixties that I then subsequently repainted. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

David: Your comments:

<quote> I realized I was losing the battle and something needed to be done to expose and document the few original cars that still exist.
</quote>

This is exactly the reason that I created the Original MGTD and TF websites back in 1999. Its also why the Gallery pages are so important on both sites. They allow those that cannot make it to a survivor show to see actual photos of cars. Plus all the factory photos, history etc., brochures, ads etc.

None the less its amazing how many people either never look at all the information that has be collected or cannot tell the difference between an original and unrestored car. And yes there is some restoration work on survivors so you have to compare a number of pictures of different cars to get the entire story. And then there are the factory variances ...

Its wonderful that so many of you have a piece of the story to tell that I can collect and post this information for the benefit of all. And the story never ceases to be told (the other day I learned about the solid side curtain rivets).
Christopher Couper

Chris,
I was trying to point out the correctness of my TD at a car show, and the judge was arguing with me. He pulled out his smart phone and pulled up your web site, and asked me if he could consult the site to settle the disagreement. I agreed, and with the help of your site, he was convinced that I was right and he was wrong.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is a survivor end panel, notice how only the exposed flat of the tank side is chrome, and the entire side is painted, including the chrome lip.


D. Sander

David: I wished that happened to me :-)

I was wondering how the factory could have painted the edge so carefully and now you and Matthew confirmed that they didn't. They just shot it from an angle that only the back and top edge would not get paint.

In our quest for perfection we always do the right thing, even when the cars never had it that good from the start. I think the factory boys would laugh (or cry) if they new how much effort we put into these little beasts today.
Christopher Couper

Like Larry Brown, once mine came back from the plater I did not have the heart to paint over chrome so left them entirely chrome and rather like that look.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Like Larry and John leaving the new chrome unmolested, the panels are so easy to remove, they could be easily painted later if desired. But were back again to personal preference and trimming these cars for themselves, not the judges! PJ
Paul S Jennings

found it, but I posted to another thread showing an original Gray TF
Rod Brayshaw

Carefully removing the green paint off of my end panels, there was an area along the edge where the original red paint was still in tact. It confirmed that my panels were painted to the edge of the chrome and not down to the flat portion of the panel. The rounded edge was painted along with the rest of the panel. PJ
Paul S Jennings

We are getting as bad as the Corvette people with overspray, etc.! I personally think it looks a lot better with the chrome masked off to the edge of the flat part, but as we now know not original. George
George Butz

I'm on that one with you, George. It looks much more natural and complete. Bud
Bud Krueger

As I was just confirming how mine was originally painted, I also think it looks better and more complete with just the flat painted. I'm going to buff out the rounded edge and see how it comes up. The flat looks like it was roughed up for painting, I hope they didn't go out past the flat area. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Paul: I would like to know too. I suspect you will find scratches.
Christopher Couper

I suspect that the design or intent of the car was to have the flat only painted, leaving the chrome bead free of paint. As anyone who has painted a t type knows, this is easier said than done. I suspect that the way the cars were painted at the factory (leaving only the flat chrome on the top and face of the tank) was simply an assembly line concession due to the time involved to "properly" paint the chrome.
I have yet to see a true survivor car with only the flat of the tank end panels painted. Not to say they are not out there, I just have not seen one.
-David
D. Sander

Have only 2 weeks ago removed my TF fuel tank side panels to go off to have the strips replated due to the original chrome starting to lift.
You can see especially on the bottom panel how the paint should finish up to the top of the roll.
Cheers John

J.K. Chester-Freeman

But what Paul is trying to determine is if they sanded the chrome edge for the paint to stick or just sprayed it on and hoped for the best. Since it seemed to stick so well I suspect we will find that the area on the chrome 'bead' had been sanded.
Christopher Couper

I'm going to check those panels later today and see if the inside edge will buff out. If not, then they will have to be painted as we think the factory did. Amazing what we find out about these cars the deeper we dig into how they came from the factory. Thank goodness for forums like this! I have no idea what I would have done without the help you guys have given me! A big THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed! There will be more later. PJ
Paul S Jennings

I removed the paint off the edge of the tank panel where it met the polished chrome top section.
As I was curious what the finish was underneath the paint before sending it out to have the top edges plated & polished.
I also did the same on the rear/inside of the panel.
You may be able to just make out from the image of the top panel where I have removed the paint leading up to the edge.
What I found on both sides was what looked like a dull silver unpolished finish but no sign of the metal having had a light sanding or any type of preparation.
I can only assume that the top edge was polished then the rest was sprayed.
Cheers John


J.K. Chester-Freeman

John: That would probably work too. A 'soft' unpolished chrome would probably have enough tooth for the paint to stick to it. No sanding would be required. But Paul it won't buff out very well if at all.

Since Calif environmental laws prohibit cad plating, I have my cad parts soft chrome plated. It looks like cad and is only 5 times more expensive :-)
Christopher Couper

Well, I found out, using three different grades of compound, it will not buff out! It is as John describes. The chrome only goes to the edge, the rest is like a soft unplated finish. It doesn't make sense but, why would the factory take the time to dull the chrome and with what? When run through the plating process, the whole piece has to be dipped. I think the repos are solid chrome. PJ

Paul S Jennings

Paul: Its still chrome, just unpolished before it gets dipped. BTW its really nickel with a splash of chrome on top.
Christopher Couper

I almost started a new thread as this one is fairly long, but kept my cool and re activated this one. My side panels are both damaged with a couple small dents and repairing them and re chroming them will cost as much as a new set. So I decided to keep the old ones with some of the original paint on them and buy a new set for the car. The new ones just get the flat painted, as Bill Browns TD panels. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Don't pitch your old ones yet Paul. I got a new set when I did the TD for the same reasons you did. The chrome was awful..peeling and corrosion right of the made in China box. I wound up having the originals replated.
MG LaVerne

Thanks LaVerne, I wasn't planning on getting rid of the old ones. I appreciate that bit of info, even though the quality of the new stuff doesn't surprise me. They look nice out of the box, but that doesn't show durability! How did you prep the flat area for paint?
Paul S Jennings

Sand scuffed and self etching primer...but I kept the full lip chrome.
MG LaVerne

but I kept the full lip chrome.


That's what I'll do, I like the look better also.
Paul S Jennings

My TD, was made in Nov. 1950. [Happy 64th Birthday] It has only been repainted once. I recall the painter asked about painting the end panels on the gas tank and I told him to do them as they were originally painted. The chrome edging was masked up to the flat of the panel which left the rounded chrome edge exposed. I think it helps to define the shape of the tank.

George
George Raham [TD4224]

Hi all,
25 years ago when my father and I rebuilt our TC from 1949 we sent a lot of parts for new chromework. We were strict of choosing a company that was able to do the work as it should be done with copper to polish and so on. We also informed them of the fact that the side panels of the tank should be painted and that there only were the edges that should be polished and chromed.
We bought the panels new as the old ones were in rather bad shape.
As many of you knows the new panels could be good or not. Ours were not! The edges were like razorblades and uneven. Thats the reason for leaving them to the chromecompany.
When collecting all the parts the man told us that most of the parts have been OK to do but, there were two things that have had to do a lot of work on. The panels...!!! He told us that they had put a lot of copper on them to be able to get them smooth and mirrorlike......!
Father and I stared on each other but said nothing. The panels weighed at least three times as much as when we left them.
They were perfect, mirrorlike and as shiny as could be.
WE NEVER PAINTED THEM! It is almost impossible to se anything else than our red paint when looking in the MIRRORS on each side of the tank.
Greetings from Sweden
/ Anders & Ingvar
T Dahlberg

This thread was discussed between 14/08/2014 and 11/11/2014

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