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MG TD TF 1500 - Generator fan change date.

I looked in the Archives and did not find an answer to when MG changed from the cast generator fan to the pressed steel fan.

I did not find this change in Clausager.

My TD is 4136. Nov 1 1950. It has the cast fan.

Chris Cooper's page on the MGTD Variant 8873 has the pressed fan.

Who has cars between these and what generator fan do you have.

Bill Chaser. I know you have one that is in between these.


I will post this question on the MG exp web and see if we can get the change date closer.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce. TD-4834 has the early fan. I’ll take a look at TD/c-8151 in the Morning.

Cheers

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

For what it's worth my TD number TD8986 was made July 11, 1951 and has a generator made 4-51 (fourth week of 1951) and has a pressed steel fan.
John Quilter (TD8986)

John Q: Good find. If not earlier,it could have happened when the moved to the 5 post regulator, TD8142

I am going to go with that until someone finds an early car with a accurate dated generator.
Christopher Couper

Great point John. We also should look at Gen date. Mine is 4/50. That is a bit far out for a Nov 1 car, but may still be in the correct ballpark.

I have had my TD since 1973 and while I am comfortable that in the 23 years I did not own the car, the generator could have been changed. It being in the same year of the car makes me think it may still be original.
Bruce Cunha

C Cooper, My TD has the 9 post regulator, is that in agreement with what you believe? I've owned this car since 1977 but I suppose the generator and or regulator might have been changed by prior owners.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Hi Bruce. My knowledge on the genny could be inscribed on the head of a pin with a jackhammer. Really keen to see how this thread develops. More pics please! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

All,

There were two model generators fitted to the TD, C39PV and C39PV2. from the parts manual the change was made at engine number 8142 The question is can we assume that the fan change was made at the same time.


John
J Scragg

According to the Lucas Overseas Technical Correspondence Course, the C39PV2 generator had a larger armature with a larger diameter commutator. Ducts on the end-brackets direct air straight on to the commutator and through the windings.

Increased ventilation enabled higher output at a safe temperature. Max 19 amps at 2000 RPM. 16 amps max vehicle load.

Makes sense that the fan would have also changes with the PV2 generator. I can't find the fan in the Lucas Parts Catalogue.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

You folks are some great detectives. I bet we find that is where the fan's changed.

Bruce Cunha

I cleaned up my fan today in preparation for paint. I restored this car back in 1993, and did not strip the paint off the fan.

Today, I note there is no paint on the fan, or under the fan and in the blades. PO could have cleaned it, but if they did, they go every piece of pant off it.

The aluminum looks nice. But, per the factory pictures, it looks like it was painted.

Also, the fan has R 2 on one sideof the back of the pulley and 24414 on the other side of the back.

Bruce Cunha

"C Cooper, My TD has the 9 post regulator, is that in agreement with what you believe?"

It just seemed a natural place to make the cutover and agreed with the car number too. And J Scragg comment could seal it if we agree that the two generators had the different fan/pulleys.
Christopher Couper

I didn't find P/N 24414 that is on Bruce's fan in the Lucas Equipment and Spare Parts List 1945-1960 or in the TD Service Parts List AKD834.

Some members say that the generator fan was installed in Abingdon instead of at the Lucas plant (because it is painted engine color.) So, it may have a Lucas number, an MG number, or an engine plant number.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I think the illustrations give a pretty good clue. Note the TF dynamo is not illustrated here, just the fan along with the other Engines Plant products.

M Magilton

And here is the TD version.

M Magilton

As usual, things get more interesting.

Here is what Bill Chasser posted.

Okay here is the original dynamo on dad’s car. TD/c-8151 built 7 June 1951. The car has a 4-51 dated dynamo and has the early fan and pulley.

The picture shows it to be a PV generator.

So his car was built 9 cars after the PV2 change, but he has a PV generator. Another case of using up what parts were on the floor?

Looks like we are narrowing it down. Any other TD's out there after 8149 up to 8873?
Bruce Cunha

Bruce it may be that the engines didn’t come out of the engine shed in numerical order. Tom would have better knowledge when looking at the daily production records. The change cited for the regulator and fuse block likely occurred the day before dad’s car was assembled so it’s very possible that there was intermingling of pieces for a brief time. The dynamo design change is an interesting bit of information that I was not aware of. Still learning something new every day :)

Bill Chasser
TD/c-8151
W A Chasser

As Bill noted, the engines were probably delivered by the truck load. Not necessarily installed into the chassis in exact numerical order.

The new PV2 generator fans probably arrived with the engine number noted in the Service Parts List. I betcha that the old and new generator fans were removed from the engines and tossed into a pile when the engines (and fans) were received from the engine plant. PV and PV2 generators from the Lucas plant were in another pile. Abingdon workers picked up a generator from the Lucas pile and found the matching fan in the engine-plant pile, mated the two and installed on the engine. After a while the stock of old generators and fans was exhausted. The new fans were not necessarily installed on the "correct" engine during the change over.

Bruce's dads TD/8151 with engine XPAG/8310 was built 7 June 1951.

TD/8142 (change from PV to PV2) was built a day earlier with a higher number engine. XPAG/8576.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Bill. Your Dad's car was a TD or TDC?

If it was a TDC, I wonder if these still went in order on the assembly line. I know the differences are Engine and Shocks, but I wonder if because of these changes, the cars were not in the standard line?

Tom. Any thoughts?

BTW. I found another interesting item.

Chris has TD 8873 as a variant that was thought to be manufactured by Zepplen Garage. Made by Auto Verkaufs GMBH in Stuttgart, Germany.

The Engine is a TD, but interesting detail on the generator. Look at the back cover band. It has a unique clamping system. There is a smaller band spot welded onto the larger band.


Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 17/03/2019 and 22/03/2019

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