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MG TD TF 1500 - ID this differential pls.

Good Morning everyone,
Can anyone ID this differential the PO stuffed into my 51? It has the letters MOWOG on the bolt side but I dont see any other numbers. it was put in with springs and all so I cant fit the rear splash apron over the shackles. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help as always,
Regards, Jim

J Hageman

It looks like a std TD / TF type to me.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Agreed... clean the gunk off the axle tubes near the diff. That's where you will find the gearing stamps
MG LaVerne

Maybe the shackle plates are fitted wrong, eg facing up. They shoul be like this:

mog

I agree with mog - The first time I attached the springs, it was with the shackles pointing up and I had to reinstall the springs correctly to make everything fit. Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Jim this issue has been encountered here by a few owners with some pretty disastrous results, me included. It's most often caused by using the interleaf spring rubbers supplied by Moss. These are too thick & the cumulative effect is to increase the camber, thus effectively shortening the eye to eye measurement of the springs. This causes the rear shackle to suddenly spring up. If it's discovered before the rear guards & apron are fitted it can be easily rectified simply by throwing the Moss rubbers in the bin & by using the original thinner pads. Otherwise some very expensive panel & paint repair result when the beautifully restored car encounters its first bump, usually the gutter outside the garage! See pic. Just be glad you discovered this now Jim as the supplier accepts no responsibility. The good old "Caveat Emptor" don't you know.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Thanks for the info on the differential. Check out the shackles fitted by PO. This is what made me think all was not as it should be
Regards, Jim

J Hageman

Looks OK to me. Why do you think it is incorrect?
H.D. Pite

Looks fine to me too? Just dirty with rotten rubber. George
George Butz

That photo makes the shackle looks like it's angled to the front instead of the back.
Gene Gillam

I think I will clean them up, replace the rubber along with the giant nuts and bolts and see if the apron will fit.
Thanks guys !
J Hageman

Jim can you measure the length of your assembled springs between the eyes? I'd like to include this info in an article I plan to write. If anyone else has an original set of TD or TF springs I'd be keen to see a comparison of these dimensions. The use of the Moss inter leaf rubbers shortened my set by a couple of inches. I marked out the before & after on my benchtop in pencil but didn't retain the two measurements. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter – I can’t help you with actual measurements, but here is a picture showing an original unmolested spring and its twin with new Moss rubber inserts. In the picture at least, there is no perceptible difference in the eye-to-eye distance or the camber. The 60 year old rubber inserts were totally useless. The springs installed easily. I just followed Horst Schach’s advice and made sure there was adequate weight on the springs to hold the shackles in place. Everything is functioning as it should.
Joe


Joe Olson

Thanks Joe. It does seem that the bottom spring set is a bit shorter. Just a couple of inches was enough to allow the rear shackle to spring up & cause the damage to the apron & guards on 3 cars here. I'm very keen to get the original eye to eye measurement from a few cars if at all possible. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

If its been taken apart and reassembled, there is a right and a wrong way of doing it, with individual springs oriented in the wrong direction. Could that be the source of the problem?
Dave H
Dave Hill

No I don't think so Dave. Once sandblasted my springs showed the original centrepunch marks on the edges of each of the springs. One set had one dimple & the other had two. They were reassembled as a set with the front to the front & the dimples all on the same side. They were reassembled correctly with the only difference being the interleaf circular pads. Examination of the original & Moss rubbers showed a considerable difference in thickness. We laid the set assembled with the Moss rubbers on its side & marked the eye positions on the bench. This set was then taken apart & reassembled using the original much thinner rubbers & again marked on the bench. The difference was obvious! The same springs with the Moss rubbers were considerably shorter, so much so that once installed, bouncing the rear of the chassis caused the rear shackle to spring right up as shown in my pic above. Fortunately my apron & guards weren't fitted so no damage was done. Subsequent inquiries revealed that 3 other owners here weren't so lucky! The fix was to trash the Moss rubbers & reuse the originals I'd purchased in 1970 which were still in good condition. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Ok. I made my own interleaf rubbers and they seem to work perfectly well. Get some sheet rubber of the preferred thickness, cut into squares or circles to fit the springs. Then get some thicker rubber for the pip in the middle and cut out with a cork borer. Glue the pip into the centre of the sheet rubber squares or circles using cyano (preferably the grade intended for rubber).
Dave H
Dave Hill

Your fix is a terrific suggestion Dave! I'd hate to see another car suffer the rear end panel damage I narrowly avoided. As I'm unfamiliar with the term cyano I Googled it & found it's cyanoacrylate, more commonly known as super glue. I know there is also somebody on this site who is a bit of a guru on the types of rubber available & so would also like a recommendation on a suitable rubbber for inter leaf spring use. I'll include this info in my article along with the factory eye to eye measurement, if someone here can supply it. Thanks Dave. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

As the rear springs are not lubricated, there is not a particular need to use an oil resistant rubber such as nitrile, though you still could. I think EPDM would be fine, but I would avoid natural rubber or SBR.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Thanks Dave. Maybe you're the guru I was referring to. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, when you publish the article let us know. This is a project I may undertake in the next year, and boy, it sounds like doing it wrong can give you headaches! (And by doing it wrong, I mean using the standard replacement rubber on the market... we need a solution to this issue)...
Geoffrey M Baker

I used the nylatron interleaf pads from John James when I refurbished the springs last winter and it all worked fine, shackle angles are correct. Also polybushes for the shackle eyes. I found out there are also PU pads available now for the rectangular spring pads, but I still used the rubber ones. Will see how long they last..
The front spring bush with the metal sleeve is also rubber, that may not be stressed as much as the rear ones. But again remains to be seen.
Rgds Mike
Mike Fritsch

This thread was discussed between 30/10/2015 and 15/11/2015

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