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MG TD TF 1500 - MG club new members?
| > What does your MG club do to attract new members? Our club is a strong group of 35 dedicated families. Two of the most active members founded the club in 1963. But it does not have a plan to gain new members. My goal for 2015 is to increase membership and cars ... all models of MGs. Our MG hobby is suffering the same problem and eventual fate as most other collector cars and car clubs. Few younger people have our passion for old cars. But there are still a lot of MGs stored in garages and MG owners / wanna-be owners who do not belong to a club. I meet young classic car enthusiasts at every car show, so all is not lost. Does your club have a plan to get new members? What do you do to encourage young enthusiasts to join? What do you do to gain publicity and expose MGs to the public? What activites does you club do that make it a strong club and also make it attractive to new members? Thank you for your suggestions and experiences. I hope to present a year-long membership plan to our club in late January. Lonnie TF7211 |
| LM Cook |
| I too am searching for ways to gain new members and wish I had answers to these questions. Seems life is in the way for most of us and hardly any time to contribute any extra time to making the club thrive. Cheers, Vincent w. Pina Chairman, MGCCLIC |
| Vincent Piņa |
| I think you will find this true with all MG clubs,,, The younger generation doesn't want to know anything about our hobby,,,, Even an organization like the NEMG"T" Register is having a difficult time getting new, younger members,,, |
| Steve Wincze |
| We have the same problems with the car clubs which I've joined here in Philadelphia. I think it's a combination of a lot of things... - Young people (mostly men) simply haven't learned to work on cars from their Dads, primarily because newer cars have little that CAN be worked on and they also don't break or need maintenance as often as the old ones did back in the day. - Indeed, most young people have NO CLUE how to work with tools of any sort - they live in a disposable era - "if it breaks, throw it out and get another one" - and as such they never developed a need to learn how to use them. - Folks want more 'instant gratification' nowadays and the car hobby is far from it - some projects last years or even decades to develop results. - There isn't as much 'free time' for young folks as there once was... time gets eaten up with longer work hours, longer commutes, time spent on the internet chasing email and such, etc. - Young people have kids... when we older folks were young many of us also had to put the car hobby aside until our kids were out of the house and at college. - Car hobbies aren't the only ones suffering - all hobbies involving hand-craftsmanship are suffering the same fate - model aircraft (indeed, model making of any kind), carpentry, blacksmithing, leatherwork, painting, woodcarving... they're all dying. I can't really see any way to change this fate. Sadly, even my own sons have little interest in my antique car collection. *sigh* |
| Kevin McLemore |
| I helped start up an English car group here a little over a year ago. Roughly 40 people. Out of that number maybe 20 or less are active. I worked pretty hard to get to that number. Without a lot of work from our new leader I doubt we will keep those numbers. I'm always on the look out for people we haven't made contact with yet. They are out there. The Rocky Mountain MG T group is also going through this same process. Suggestions for gaining new membership is pretty much naught. I offered up some but to no avail. The ownership is rapidly aging and most don't really want to drive the cars any father than a close by lunch gathering. Modern comfort of new automobiles, diminishing reflexes and aching joints make it a hard point to argue. My suggestion would be open up your group. Look activities that would involve Miata's Porsches, Honda's etc. Thats what the younger folks are driving and if you want to get them interested in MG's you need to get them around MG's. As a brand we haven't seen new MG's here in 35 years. Same goes for the other British marks in general. Will it work? I know doing nothing different will be a slow death as I've seen in the once large and proud vintage car clubs here locally. They became pretty clickish and scoffed at anything different. For that they are no more. Just my two cents |
| MG LaVerne |
| Looks like most agree that gloom and doom are our eventual fate. But I'm fighting to delay that fate as long as possible, and enjoy my LBC. >> Let's come up with some ideas to attract members and to keep our clubs vibrant. Off-the-wall and out-of-the-box ideas are just as welcome as tried-and-true successes. Here are a couple that our webmaster came up with ... + MOBILE TECH CREW - Local web-searchers find our website frequently to ask questions. A mobile tech group of two or three members could go to that person and show how to fix his problem, plus invite to the club. + TECH DAYS - Regularly scheduled hands-on tech sessions to focus on a particular topic (carbs, suspension, paint-body, etc.) Always enjoyed by members; good information for non-members. Advertise on-line and local shops and suppliers. More ideas ... + Become more visable: Be in parades as a group. Attend more car shows. Solicit new businesses to be a part of their grand openings or promotions. + Find registered MGs in the area/state. Unfortunately, privicy laws prevent easy access to the information from the state. + Don't limit club activities to "old folks" activities. (I'm going on 69, so I can say that.) Include outings that welcome kids or that the few young members in the club will enjoy. Hey guys, I'm pulling ideas out of my ear so that I can present to our club. Help me. Lonnie TF7211 |
| LM Cook |
| I think the best idea is to stop expecting the younger generation to suddenly take up the hobby. They aren't the demographic for these cars and never will be. It's primarily the older generation who become interested in old things, always has been. It's true young guys used to be more interested in T-cars, but that was a different time and the cars weren't exactly antiques back then. I don't expect the classic car hobby to ever die, at least not in my lifetime. There will always be older men wanting to get a vintage machine to play with. One local MG club I'm involved with (for MG TC) has had roughly 100 registrations (app 200 members) for the past 60 years, with no sign of wavering. We gained three new members in just the past few weeks to replace the two who dropped out. |
| Steve S |
| Some clubs have divided their clubs into different groups which include all types of vehicles, including antique and classic American/Canadian cars. You have to expand your club and at shows, section them off to their individual categories. British cars in their own section and other cars in theirs. Judge by individual classes and give trophy's or something of recognition for the first and second place in each class. You would be amazed at some of the vehicles that show up! Just a thought. PJ |
| Paul S Jennings |
| A few suggestions: 1) Do car shows, parades, and driving events where the cars are in the public eye. 2) Do charity events, especially involving kids and the disabled. Enlist the press so you get coverage. 3) Invite your kids and grandkids along on events. Be sure they are involved, especially in valve cover racing and gymkhanas. Let them take some credit for prepping the car for shows. 4) Involve your youngsters in GOFs. (I have a son (37) and granddaughter (12) who wouldn't miss a GOF. 5) Ask the youngsters to assist whenever you work on the car. Start with cleaning and polishing, work up to mechanicals. Whatever you do, start them early, involve them often. And make the experience fun! |
| Lew Palmer |
| Lonnie it's a problem but not an insurmountable one. T types still attract people. Pull up in any large shopping centre car park stand well back & just watch people of all ages gather. Heads swivel when T types drive by young & old alike. T types were an anachronism even when they were new which is part of their timeless attraction. Kevin's assessment is spot on. Many clubs become cliquey & often aren't aware of it not realizing new members (of all ages) are made to feel they are not part of the in crowd so they just drift away. A club that has premises & a willingness to use the space for a variety of activities including social functions, tech evenings, information sharing, teaching seminars with hands on sessions, vehicle repair & restoration classes for members, internal swap meets, tools & equipment for the use of members, a library, a collection of donated original parts as templates, a T type undergoing club restoration to be sold on completion with proceeds going to the club, secure storage for member's restoration projects, even just a place to go & have a coffee, a point of focus, knowing there will be people there who are only too willing to offer advice & assistance, then that club is very healthy & has a real future. A club in the true sense of the word. However if a club is in the hands of those who run M.G. related businesses & who use their positions to further their own ends, then the acquisition of premises used in the manner I suggest is anathema & will be actively resisted to the detriment of the members, the club & ultimately to the marque itself. I'm a member of an M.G. club that has over 750 members with more than $300,000 in the bank yet offers little of what I suggest. I wonder why... Not so cheery.. Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| There could be a few tips buried in history in this link: http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_america.htm#clubs One would expect that anyone that bought one of these cars must have a reason to own it. That must include showing it and/or perhaps driving it. If you start with those two premises, and add the aspects of maintaining both of the above, you will get to most of the drive I would suspect. Back in the day before the internet and forums, about the only way we could learn about the cars was via person to person exchanges or the rare newsletter. Now we are over saturated with info from the net (and of course I and the rest of you are to blame for that :-) The social stuff can be good too but in the end of the day it needs to complement the above two, not be the excuse just to socialize. |
| Christopher Couper |
| The Victorian branch of the MG car club is split into many different registers as it caters for all MG's. One of the registers is called Youth on Wheels. As the name implies it is for the younger brigade. The club owns two MGB's which are for their use. Days are organised at venues like hill climbs and motorkhanas where the kids can have a go. They also prepare the cars for the days use and for the annual concours. The group seems to be doing quite well. http://youth.mgcc.info |
| Max Irvine |
| Interesting article I found in the Hemmings archives. I think it says a lot about this topic. Hope the link works for you all. http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2013/07/11/is-car-culture-dying-no/ Read Roger Lee's comments especially. |
| DHN Nordstrom |
| One thing we can do is reach out to drivers on the new MINIs. There are some very active clubs for these cars, with very enthusiastic young drivers. We need to do better outreach to them as legitimate British car drivers, in the hope that they develop an interest in their MINI's ancestors and continue preserving our cars. I am also concerned about how long we will still be able to buy gasoline as we know it to fuel our antique cars. |
| Jack Long |
I agree on the MINI point, Jack. Sadly, some of the 'real' MIni owners are very snobbish about the new MINI and are quite vocal in their rejection of that car as anything that should be called a 'mini'. I know... I own one in my collection, and as a former 'real' Morris Mini Minor owner I'm saddened when I hear it. It's a bit like some of the strict purist MG owners and how they react to a non-factory original MG... obvious distain and 'shunning' behaviour. We really need to quell this as a group to be more inclusive and allow a little creativity and harmony in our clubs and forums. Without it we just drive folks away.
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| Kevin McLemore |
| The common feeling through this discussion is "how do we get younger people interested in our cars" There is only one answer to this - you can't! Collector cars are the cars that a person fell in love with at about age 18, but didn't have the money to buy. Fast forward to age 40 when this same person has some disposable cash on hand and is still drooling over that car he/she drooled over at age 18, so they go out and get one to restore/drive/ or just park in his/her garage. I was fortunate in that my parents had a TD when I was in high school that was given to me to drive in my senior year. As soon as I went in the Navy, they sold the car. We (my wife and I) finally managed to purchase one when we were in our mid thirties and we still have it - but neither of our kids really want it. We are now in our 70s, the people who are now in the position to purchase that car they were drooling over when they were 18, sure are not drooling over TDs, TFs, MGAs or MGBs. Before you tell me about the neighbor kid who drools over your TD, yes they all do (we got an "Awesome Car") from some teen age boys a couple of years ago, but the collector car they buy when they hit 40 isn't going to be an MG of any kind. So instead of beating ourselves up on how to get the younger people interested in our cars, we need to figure out how to keep what clubs we have going for a few more years. This will probably mean merging clubs together, combining T series cars with other MG clubs that include the later cars and enjoy the club activities as long as we can. You can also do what my wife and I do - we drive our TD and MGB all the time, all year long (except when they put salt on the roads). Living in the Puget Sound area of Washington state, we don't let a little (or a lot of) rain stop us. We even take our TD (full of all the membership stuff) to the formal dance club that has dances in the winter months, both of us in formal attire, even in the rain and if it happens to snow during the evening, we drive home in the snow. When we sometimes take the pickup to a weekend dance at the local Elks and friends of ours show after we are already there, we always get "we didn't think you were here, we didn't see your car out there (speaking of either MG)". Cheers (drive them until the wheels fall off) - Dave |
| D W DuBois |
| I'm pretty confident that most of the regulars on this site are over 60 & Dave you are right about the cars we fell in love with as kids. But yet anytime a T Type comes up for sale here it always seems to find a buyer. I wonder how many owners & users of this forum are young? Under say 40? (Count me out). Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Peter, you might get a hit if you'd said "under fifty" but, alas, not from me :-) Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Well, Peter, I've got a couple of years on you - I'm only 58! But I've been restoring LBC's since I was 16, so I suppose I fit somewhat into Dave's 'fell in love with at about 18' rule. But I will say that several of my cars over the years pre-date my own birth - namely my 1949 Triumph Renown and 1952 MG-TD, and previously in my collection, my 1954 Swallow Doretti. Here's me at about 17... can you name the car I was restoring? :) 
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| Kevin McLemore |
| I feel that very few kids of today will be buying 2005 models to restore when they are 40. Mainly because not a lot of those cars will survive due to the fact that parts won't be easy to come by. Computer modules, complex molded interior parts, etc will likely be impossible to source. Second, I just don't see them becoming the type of collectible item that cars up through the 70's or even 80's were. Young people always drool over our old cars when we have them out, and if they had the money laying around then many of them would have bought one already. But the truth is that they don't, and as prices get higher there will be fewer and fewer youngsters entering the hobby. But I don't see the older generation ever growing tired of machines like ours. Some clubs are shrinking but there is no flood of cars on the market, so where are the cars going? Nowhere, I believe. We're just in a transition of generations. I've seen a lot of cars changing hands from the 80s crowd to the 40s/50s crowd lately. The club I'm most involved in has seen the average age drop by about a decade in the past two years. Attendance at club events has doubled since about 6 or 7 years ago. I'm truly not concerned about the future of the hobby. Each year that goes by it gets easier and easier to own an old car and I see more of them on the road, at least around here. |
| Steve S |
| Maybe there are two issues at play here: One being the club and all its activities and the other being the cars themselves. Not everyone plays well with others. There are wonderful people in this world that have a lot to offer but don't always fit into social activities of any kind. Golf, bowling - you name it. If personalities don't jive it isn't going to matter what the activity is, it won't work. My stint with the old Corvette guys lasted less than one season because so many of them thought they're behinds were dipped in chocolate. Turned me off instantly. If there was ever a clique, it's with those guys. But I love the cars and up until a couple of years ago owned two and drove the wheels off of them. Never attending another one of their events. In my view the best medium for car guys to get together as a group is in the garage or on the road. That's the one common thread we all share and you can be of any age to participate. The rest of it depends so much on your other interests and those of your spouses. And you won't bring the younger folks in if your playing Lawrence Welk music and dancing the two step. Just ask them. Can you say Elks club? I for one love cars of all makes. Mostly old ones, but a few of the newer ones as well. If they are unique, cool and maybe fast I'm interested. I have a hand full of friends that are car guys through and through, but I can't even talk them into joining these online groups as if for nothing else just a place to learn and see what others are doing with their cars. These places are a great source of information and I for one am very thankful to have found this site. With zero MG experience I am in the archives almost daily making sure I am doing things correctly so as to minimize my mistakes and shorten the learning curve. Just as a footnote to this, please don't scold us or make us feel small for asking a question "that has been discussed over and over". Finding things in the Archives can sometimes be a daunting task. That would/will turn me off in a heart beat. Many of you have discussed this stuff for years, but many of us haven't. Someone earlier mentioned providing a Club sponsored garage with an open door policy might be a great way to bring folks together. I think he's right on. A place to gather, barrow tools share experiences, etc. However that seems a very expensive proposition. Rent isn't cheap and logistics will play a huge part. When my kids were growing up I used to tell my friends if they didn't go where their kids were going they would be going without them. I still believe it today. Find what they like and follow. And bring the cars along. So there's a Newbies 2 cents worth. Dan |
| DHN Nordstrom |
Kevin: I'll take you up on the 70's hair challenge :-)
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| Christopher Couper |
| Had the hair but not the photos - Ah! Lost youth. The car - my first thought was TVR but a very short search failed to find a match. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Ha... that's a good one, Christopher. Although as for me, I didn't cut my hair again until I left college, 5 years later! The girls in the dorm loved playing with it, and I can't say I minded the attention. :) As for your car, it's easy to identify... mine, not so easy. Nice guess on the TVR, but mine predates them - it was made in 1958. My car in the photo was one of only two like it known to exist, though there were other models of the car made, with about 1200 cars in total being made by the company. There. A few hints. |
| Kevin McLemore |
| Oh, and another (big) hint... it was based on an Austin A35, so it had a BMC A-series 950cc Austin engine, gearbox and rear. |
| Kevin McLemore |
| Looks like a Siata Swallow. |
| Steve S |
| Nope, Steve... as noted, it has an Austin 950cc engine and, a new hint, it was made in Wolverhampton, England. |
| Kevin McLemore |
| Turner 950 Sports. OK, I cheated. A Google searched turned up this ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Sports_Cars Lonnie TF7211 |
| LM Cook |
| FWIW, As far as allowing the New Minis "into the fold", we have always had a place for them at our British By The Sea,,, Even this "one of a kind" !!! Steve 
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| Steve Wincze |
| Got it, Lonnie! My Turner was a bit unusual, however. You'll see in the original black & white photo that the body had a few small dents and rust holes... but Turner's were supposed to be *fiberglass* cars. Mine was one of only two known steel-bodied Turners. According to Jack Turner they were the original 'bucks' used to make the molds for the Turner cars, and once they added the rear fins to the later 950cc cars they no longer needed the steel bodies so they put them onto chassis and sent them out the door in order to recover some cost. Here's a photo of the car just after I finished restoring it... I later found the proper chrome hubcaps (from a Hillman Minx)... 
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| Kevin McLemore |
| Last year I had the experience of working on a friends MG TC at the local high school body shop where we joined an adult evening class to gain access to the paint booth. I was not surprised when the high school students crowded around the TC repeatedly to ask questions. None had ever seen a coach built car. When asked, the body shop instructor thought it would be a good idea to have some T types show up one day for a show and tell for the high school students. I'm going to get this idea going next fall. The exposure the younger generations are getting to mid-20th century cars of all kinds on TV restoration shows these days is a good launching point for generating interest in our hobby. I'm thinking of expanding the types of cars we take to the high school so we can talk a little about the history of the development of these cars. For example, we will have T types, an MGA, an MGB, perhaps a Bugeye, a Morgan, Sunbeam, and a Cobra. We will have some fun with it and perhaps excite some of these kids with our hobby. |
| Charlie Adams |
| Dang! Turner is the other name I was trying to think of. We have both a TVR and a Turner in our Foothills British Car Club - old like me or new. I'll try to get a picture of the Turner. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Kevin, Swallow Doretti ???????????????? I've been looking for this image since you mentioned the Doretti,, Here is on that I found here in CT a few years back,, just a few miles from my house,,, 
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| Steve Wincze |
Now the ID plate of #293
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| Steve Wincze |
| Great idea Charlie. The smaller of the two clubs that I belong to is always looking for suggestions for outings & the show & tell sounds terrific! I have a friend whose son goes to the Kings School, one of the exclusive private boy's schools here in Sydney. The facilities available to the boys in their final couple of years are astonishing with the restoration of boats, cars & motorcycles not uncommon. They also host an annual All British Day with many hundreds of vintage, veteran & classic cars on show attracting thousands of visitors. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Lonnie, good question. I'm of course too far away to make any of the Orlando club events, and equally far from the west coast groups. We have a really neat cars and coffee in Lakeland, and even that seems to be declining. The average owner's age is maybe 55, and older yet at our local cruse in. If the Florida T-clubs had not admitted A's and B's years ago they would be dead. Most kids seem to be interested in whatever is on their phone, although there are a few exceptions. My son is finally turning into a car guy which makes me very happy! Running a club takes a lot of work and time, and very few have that. All we can do is keep driving and showing off our cars, and hopefully a few younger folks will take a liking to them. I do think taking your MG to a local cruise in, cars and coffee and the like will give MG exposure, and you may well find some other people with cars that didn't know about the club. I also agree with Charlie that the plethora of rebuild/restoration shows on now will generate interest in the old car hobby. George |
| George Butz |
| Very cool, Steve. Is the car still there? I've always wanted another. I had car 1216 (#216), but sold it over 20 years ago. It was a factory 'works' car - i.e. they had planned to race it... had Lockheed front disc brakes (instead of the TR2 drums), a full belly pan under the motor complete with louvers and velocity stacks on the carbs (which I still have!). |
| Kevin McLemore |
| Kevin, I have more pics,, email me for the short story ,,, I'd really like to know where the car is now. And don't forget Early Triumphs/Mayflowers are Marque of the Year at BBTS,, even if you are unable to bring yours, come on over for the fun,,,, MGTD52 at Comcast dot net Steve |
| Steve Wincze |
| Doretti #293 would be one of the very last, if not the very last, Swallow Doretti made. The club only has registered up to #289, so this would be the last production one known to exist. I don't see your address... how does one locate a user's email address on this site? |
| Kevin McLemore |
| KEVIN,, MGTD52 at Comcast dot net Change the at to @ and the dot to . that's it STEVE |
| Steve Wincze |
| It should have come up when on the home page pou click on "contact owners",,, but for some reason, I don't appear,,,, I'll fix it later Steve |
| Steve Wincze |
| Email on the way, Steve... thanks! I've done some checking and I stand corrected... the last known Swallow Doretti made is chassis number 1294... so the one you found is the second to the last one known to have ever been produced. It's a very special car and I'd love to know where it is. Here's #1294, the last car made (as far as is known), now nicely restored, after having previously suffered a bad fire, melting many of the aluminium panels. It lives in the UK. 
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| Kevin McLemore |
| Thanks everyone for your insightful comments and ideas to expand the membership in our MG club. You showed me the activities that I should concentrate on to generate the best results. Most of the suggestions, plus some that I added, fall into these categories: > Design every event to include ways to attract and include new members, without alienating current members. > Find current MG owners that are not club members > Create activities that satisfy needs of new owners > Create social activities that attract and benefit middle age new members > Attain publicity for the club and club events > Expose the club on social media > Enhance the club website to attract new members and to show benefits to joining > Invite people to join by personal interaction by members I have created specific recommendations and activities for each category. My next move is to meet with some interested members to tweak the activities before presenting the concept to the club. I hope that we also start thinking about an alternative plan to pursue if / when members and interest in LBCs sinks to a level where mergers are necessary. Thanks for your insight into that reality, too. I cannot express how wonderful our club is. It has made the ownership of my TF a joy. I want to do everything that I can to avoid an epitaph for the club that reads ... "The Classic MG Club - founded 1963, dissolved 2020." Lonnie TF7211 |
| LM Cook |
This thread was discussed between 26/12/2014 and 02/01/2015
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