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MG TD TF 1500 - My Front Liscense Plate Story


After not being registered for 46 years, I finally got NJ plates for my TD.

The last time it was registered was in Florida in 1968. Thus the front plate fixings were long gone.
I searched the archives and found I needed a blank plate holder, two "Z" brackets and some 1/4" phillips machine head screws.

I do remember seeing ONE "Z" bracket but I have no Idea where it went. I ordered the brackets and plate from Moss.
They did arrive in one day.

The brackets fit OK but were zinc plated. The archives show black. So I painted them. (Upper left)

The backing plate came with a free hole, not useful for anything. I can only assume that it was used to hang the plate up for painting.

I carefully marked out the plate, using masking tape for the "Z" bracket and NJ plate holes, using masking tape. (upper right)
I doing so I found the paint very fragile. Concerned about lifetime after drilling, I repainted with two coats, of Rust-Cap to make it last.

Now finally we have a registered TD.

Oh yes one bit of NJ nonsense. Any trim brackets (In NJ) cannot cover ANY printing on the plate. So the chrome trim around the NJ plate must be small. Nothing like "Safety Fast allowed". Even though it does not cover the numbers.

Merry Christmas

Jim B.

One other part of the story.
In NJ, to get plates, you need to have a title and two pictures, one from the front and one from the side.
I printed out two I had taken in the garage and went to the DMV.

They did not like the pictures.

1) the car was on roller stands. They said the car must be finished and running. Its wheels must be on the ground or its not finished.

2) the car cannot be in the garage.
So I go home, jack up the car, remove the roller stands and push the car out of the garage.
(The tank is empty for winter and I did not want to put gas in it.)
Then it seems I dont have enough ooomph to get the car back into the garage.

Later that night wit the help of my daughter we do get it back in.
But in doing so I pulled my Achilles tendon and I am still hobbling around.




JA Benjamin

Congratulations! Every victory over the DMV is significant. Because my 1950 TD has only 4 numbers in its "VIN" (0581), it drives the State of California's system bonkers. This year it took only two mailings a long phone call and a fax to renew my registration.

When I got my TD, it was an out-of-state car meaning it had to be inspected and the VIN verified. The poor young police officer didn't have a clue. "MG", she said, "who makes that?"
Charles Duffy

Ah, the intrusiveness of government. I should consider myself lucky to live in Oregon where there is only one rear plate for special interest or antique vehicle registrations. A one time redecoration of the title with the DMV and you never hear from them again as long as you own the vehicle.
John Quilter

Sorry to hear about your Tendon. The things we have to go through. What the heck difference could it make to a government agency if the car is running or not. They got their money.
Bruce Cunha

A related question. There are many American programmes on the TV where a car is found in a junk yard and the rebuilt, often with a crate engine, or converted into a hot rod. In the UK there would be real problems getting such a car registered for road use and it would probably be given a Q registration meaning it was of unknown origin. What happens in the States? Also it looks as though in the States anyone can test drive a car. What's the situation with road tax, insurance and road worthiness testing. One such programme is Wheeler Dealers.

Jan T
J Targosz

Aren't we lucky we don't get all the government we pay for?
Lew3

Jan T.

In the USA Auto registration is not Federalized. Each state has its own rules.

For our LBC's, in New Jersey, they are considered Historic cars and the process is simpler (however not simple.)

"Historic registration may be assigned to an antique vehicle which is at least twenty-five (25) years old. The vehicle must be owned as a collector’s item and used solely for exhibition or educational purposes.

Please note that the vehicle cannot be altered from the manufacturer’s original design in any way and must be equipped for legal operation on New Jersey roadways.

Historic registration must be renewed every three (3) years, but there will be no-fee for the renewal.
The vehicle must be covered by the minimum automobile insurance coverage required by the State of New Jersey
.
Requirements -
Please return your fully completed application with the following documents:
1) A photocopy of the current New Jersey
title issued in your name.
2) Two color photographs of the vehicle, front and side
view (may be printed on plain paper).
3) Pay required fee as
follows: $44.00– Standard Historic Plates;
(Since I held a Florida title, there was an additional LARGE fee to make it a NJ title."

For custom Vehicles its more difficult.


In New Jersey, an antique or collector's vehicle is one that is a limited edition, no older than 25 years, must not be driven for more than 3,000 miles a year and must be insured as a collector's vehicle.
The State defines a custom-built vehicle as a specialty vehicle which includes reconstructed kit cars, salvage vehicles and glider cars besides vehicles purchased by the government and the military.

Before contacting the MVC, you must have the following documents ready:

Bills of sales for all parts purchased.
VIN number application if vehicle has never been assigned one.
An Inspector's Report, certifying that the vehicle is safe to take on the road.

To register a collector's vehicle, you will need all the following documents:

Completed collector vehicle application.
Letter attesting the vehicle's collector status by manufacturer or organization on letter head.
Proof of limited-use insurance
Photographs of all four sides of the vehicle.

Send these to the MVC at Trenton:

So if you build a car at home, you must join some sort of Hot Rod club, recognized by the state to get a license.

Under no circumstance are you allowed to "Test" drive the car without plates, but If you have a friendly garage, they may have "repair" or "Dealer" plates.


It is simpler in other states.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Crickey I hope you are not going to negotiate any speed humps with the front plate being so low.
G Evans

That is a concern G Evans.
But the other way around covers the crank handle hole.
I think the Brits have a better way with their configuration.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim, look at my mount. The 'Z' braces are used to hold a piece of Al angle bar that the bottom two license plate screws mount into. To get to the crank hole all I have to do is remove one of the two screws and rotate the plate. Bud

Bud Krueger

This is the way I mounted mine. I have not had it catch on anything yet.

g parker

I have the front plate attached as Jim and Gary have done theirs. The only thing that the plate catches on is the parking bumpers, just enough to make a loud scraping noise that causes me to hit the brake - of course it has crossed the bumper before I can stop, so I have listen to it when backing out. So far, it has not caused any damage (other than to our nerves). Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

It's funny...when I re-registered my 50 TD in California many years ago the 4 digit VIN (engine) number on the title had to be confirmed. When the deputy inspected the car he said "that ID plate is put on with screws; who knows where it came from? It needs to be welded on". I showed him that the chassis number on the frame and the number on the engine matched to the plate, so he signed off on the registration.
W H Francis

Very helpful thread, we need a front plate here in Illinois and have been pondering the options. I am still running on the temporary tag which is only on the rear.
S Griffin

I live in the state of Virginia, which requires a plate in the back and one in the front. I have never put a plate in the front on my collector cars and have never been stopped by the police. I do drive my cars a good part of th time. Good luck to all
David Honness

s stated. Car title and registration varies from state to state. In most, a car that is turned into a hot rod, or has not been titled/registered in X years (varies from state to state), you can apply for a missing title. In most states, you have to have a police officer verify the frame number. They will run the car to see if it was stolen,if not, you can usually get a new title for it.

As for shows like Wheeler Dealer. No issues in test driving a car. The owner is on the hook if it were wrecked. Also, in most states, there is no requirement to have a car inspected that it is safe to drive other than having it pass a smog test (some states and in some areas, only specific areas of the state).


An example. I am currently finishing the restoration of a 1986 Honda 3 wheel scooter. I do not have a title, just a bill of sale from the last person that owned it.

I will take it to the Highway patrol office to have them verify the motor and frame registration numbers. They will check it against a list of stolen vehicles. If it is not on the list, they will give me a paper showing the numbers are clean. The DMV will issue me a new title for the bike ( in my state, anything past about 10 years has been purged from the computer).

I don;t have to show it is running, or that it has working brakes, muffler, etc. The police will only look at numbers and that it has the proper manufacturers stickers on it (like one that says it met all pollution standards at the time it was made.
Bruce Cunha

In New York State, you can get a historical plate for your car if the vehicle is 30 years and older. Further, you can use a "period correct" license plate provided that plate is not number is not currently valid in someone else's name.

In my case the car is a 1979 MGB. I do have a license plate from that time era, originally issued to me. I can use that plate on my 1979 MGB. the caveat is, I cannot restore the license plate to its original state. This means, I cannot repaint this plate to restore it. That would be considered an alteration and would invalidate the plate. The other caveats are the vehicle cannot be used a a daily driver. It is for parades, events and cannot be driven more than "X" miles per year.

Cheers

Gary
79 MGB
gary hansen

In New York also, if the car is from a single plate year i.e. 1953 then you only use a rear plate.

Happy New Year,
Jim
James Neel

I had to dig this out but recalled seeing an article relating to historic front plates in NJ.

I don't have a front plate on any of my NJ historic reg cars. Look at the front of a Lotus Seven and you can see why. Touch wood not had to argue the point with the law either. This is worth a read and feel free to interpret as you feel.

Here is NEW JERSEY STATUTE 39:3-27.4. Historic motor vehicles; registration, license plates, display. “Historic motor vehicle” shall mean any motor vehicle which is at least 25 years old and which is owned as a collector’s item and used solely for exhibition and educational purposes by the owner. Any owner of an historic motor vehicle who is a resident of this State may register such motor vehicle under the provisions of this act. Application for registering an historic vehicle shall be on forms prescribed by the director. Upon proper application and payment of the prescribed fee, the director shall issue a special non-conventional registration and special license plate for each historic motor vehicle registered in this State. Such registration and license plate shall be valid during the period of time that the vehicle is owned by the registrant. The fee for such registration and license plate shall be $25.00. The license plate shall bear the word “historic” and shall be of such design and colors as the director may determine. Notwithstanding the provisions of R.S.39:3-33 or any other law to the contrary, an owner of a vehicle registered as an historic vehicle, or any vehicle manufactured before 1945, shall not be required to display more than one special license plate issued for that vehicle, which plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle.
martin vickery

Interesting to read all this - typically people complain about German bureaucracy, but it does not look too bad in comparison...

Rgds, Mike
Mike Fritsch

Gary Hansen: When I restored my TD in California back in the late 70s I was issued the then common blue and gold 3 number, 3 letter plates. I wanted the earlier cool black and gold 3 letter 3 number ones that signify the car has been in California for a long, long time. So I just painted my blue and golds to black and golds and ran them. Never questioned by any officer in 30 plus years of use.
John Quilter

Who knows how some of these things find their way into the law. In Oregon, the definition of an antique vehicle is that it must be older than the result of the following equation. The current year (2016) less the year 1900 divided by two. So, at this moment, your 1958 MGA is an antique, but your buddy's 1959 MGA is not!

Happy holidays,

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

Wild story with registration of my MGB. In NY State, you need a title to register a car if it is 1973 model year or newer. I bought my 1979 MGB from a "non-title" state in 2001. So when I went to DMV I was denied registration. After much deliberation and pleading my case, I was still denied. A neighbor of mine had the same issue some years previously. He told me to contact Vermont DMV and they would help. In the end, I received Vermont license plates, registration and title from Vermont registered to me at my NY State home. I questioned them about getting the car inspected and was told "The next time you are in VT, get it done." I drove the car with VT plates for 7 years. After moving from Westchester Co. in NY 250 miles north to the Adirondacks in NY, I was pulled over by the State Police for not having the car inspected. So when the officer saw the NY address on a VT registration, the fun began. After explaining this situation, he still wasn't buying it. Not being one with much patience, my wife went to the local NY DMV to deal with it. She knew the clerk at DMV and in the end, I did get NY plates AND a title.

Next stop was court. The officer didn't show to defend the tickets (no inspection and illegal registration), and the judge had never seen an MGB. I invited her out to the parking lot to see the car. She said it was cool and dropped the whole thing. I still had to pay $60 for court cost.

The fun never ends.

Cheers

Gary
79 MGB
gary hansen

I guess I am going to be in for fun, I have an Australia TF that I own, but titles don't exist down there. I do have the transfer of ownership document and the annual registration certificate all in my name.

Come March, DMV here I come, get ready, or Vermont, here I come.
P G Gilvarry

Kirk Trigg: The "AQ" plates you can get in Oregon for an "antique" pre 1959 model give you essentially the same benefits as the "SP" plates you can get for a car older than 25 years. So the antique definition is really academic. My TD runs an AQ plate but my 1969 Austin America an SP plate. So, in spite of the quirks in the law, a far more accommodating set up than the state to our south.
John Quilter

P.G. The title issue in New York State is: A title is required for cars model year 1973 and newer. As mine is a 1979, and did not have a title, albeit from a different state, THAT was the problem. Prior to 1973 and older, the registration was your proof of ownership
Now you need registration, Bill of Sale, and title from 1973 an up.

A Bill of Sale can be written up by the seller on any paper. Description of vehicle (year,make, model, color) V.I.N., price, condition of sale, and signed and printed by both buyer and seller.

Your TF should not be a problem as long as you have some sort of authentic registration document. That should serve as your proof of ownership.


Cheers

Gary
79 MGB
gary hansen

John,

I agree. Where the antique definition used to come into play was in regard to the rules regarding which vehicles were allowed to burn non ethanol fuel on Oregon's highways. Only vehicles defined as being antique were allowed to use non ethanol gasoline. Fortunately, that was corrected about four years ago. Now any vehicle is permitted to use non ethanol gasoline as long as it is at least 91 octane or above.

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

This thread was discussed between 24/12/2016 and 01/01/2017

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