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MG TD TF 1500 - Oil leak at the pump

Just refit the engine of my MG TD and after prim the oil pump, the engine started easily with a 55-60 psi pressure. After a little time, I have found a oil leak at the pump. This seems to come from the mounting screws but it is difficult to be sure. The pump was rebuilt by Peter Edney and the bolts is new and brass washers also. Have you ever meet this problem ? What are the precautions to take when installing the oil pump ? Is it possible to remove the oil pump without removing the engine ? Many thanks in advance for help me.
Didier

Roussel Didier

Nobody help me ?
I have found on this pdf website http://www.mgbits.com/contents/en-uk/B197P.pdf that :
"Put silicone sealer on the copper washers and on the threads of the 6MM bolts that will secure the cover
to the oil pump body."
You confirm ?
Thanks. Didier
Roussel Didier

Didier, the problem might be in knowing where your leak is located. Can you describe it, or perhaps take a photo showing the area? Bud
Bud Krueger

Let's think this through.

Normally no oil should be able to reach the bolts. The copper washers (that I fitted on my engine, too) should therefore be unneccesary.

The only way the oil can reach the bolts is at the bottom of the housing where the gasket should prevent leakage, or at the top of the housing.
The top of the housing and the cap that fits on it should both be so perfectly flat that it seals the oil without a gasket.

So the cause of the leaks is in these two places. The copper washers only conceal a symptom. Maybe the bolts are loose? But Be VERY careful not to overtighten these flimsy bolts. Apparently they break easily.

I don't know if you can remove the pump with the engine in the car, but I think I read in another thread that it is possible.

Also nice to watch is the Youtube video of John Twist about the xpag oil pump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHAaDKL3gM&list=PLmh229uhw0-cAYqoag9KAfa-NAdiq7iWq&index=20
Willem van der Veer

You have to make positively sure where the leak is. Could be one of the brass plugs, or the filter adaptor? You can buy some fluorescent dye and a special LED light wand that will show the exact leak location. You put the additive into the oil, and shine the light on it and it will glow. I did that to make sure my front lead was the crank seal and not the cover or bearer plate gasket. Really obvious this way. Obviously there was a bolt head leakage issue, or the factory wouldn't have used the copper washers. did you remove the paint from the pump before bolting, so the washers seal on bare metal? George
George Butz

George, can you provide details about the additive and LED light? That would sure save a lot of guesswork on looking for leak sources.
"You can buy some fluorescent dye and a special LED light wand that will show the exact leak location."
Jim Merz

A dye is NAPA #765-2661, about $7/bottle. The light source needs to be a UV source. There are some UV LEDs available at cheap prices now. What are you using, George/ Bud
Bud Krueger

I was able to install my pump with the engine in the car. All I had to do was unbolt the steering shaft and move it up out of the way. Then undo the front stabilizer link. I may have also removed the two front engine lower mount bolts. My exhaust was not hooked up or my generator. With a little rocking pressure to tilt the engine away from the frame, the pump fit right in. Seems like you should be able to reverse and take it out if need be. I did have to use a crow foot wrench when torquing a couple of the bolts.
RER Rosa

Roussel,
Look in the Work Shop Manual Section A.2,3 & 4 on removing the oil pump.
I just took mine off with the engine in the car.
As was mentioned above you need to remove the stabilizer, pull the steering column back, remove the two front engine mounting screws. Put a jack under the front of the engine.
I dismantled mine in sections and had to maneuver the engine around to gain clearance.
Mine will go back in a few days.
Let me know if you don't have a WSM and I will e-mail you those sections.
Mort
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

if you decide to remove the pump with th eengine in situ, drain the coolant to a level where you can remove the upper radiator hose. if to raise the engine with upper radiator hose in place you put lot of pressure on the upper tank to core joints..they will/can seperate. regards, tom
tm peterson

Bud, The one I used was part of an AC leak detection kit, which included UV goggles for eye protection. It isn't available any more. There are a bunch of different inexpensive ones out there, just Google. George
George Butz

Thank you everybody for advice. I try this weekend to remove the pump with the engine in situ. I noted that it's necessary to remove upper radiator nose, the stabilizer and the two front engine mounting screws, unbolt the steering shaft and move it up out of the way and pull the steering column back. Perhaps, also the exhaust and the gearbox mounting nut.
After, I will put a jack under the front of the engine to go up and try.
Regarding the fluorescent dye and a special LED light, it's a very good idea but I can not find it in France.
I will tell you this adventure soon ...
Didier
Roussel Didier

I cannot stop the drip off the big brass nut on the bottom of my pump. Teflon tape doesn't help. any ideas on what type of goop best to use? thanks,
Tyler
C.T. Irwin

Any workshop specialising in (car) air conditioning should have the fluor dye for finding leaks in the airco system. Maybe you can buy it there?
Willem van der Veer

Jim, I used the die and a little UV LED flashlight from Amazon. Worked great finding my leaks.

http://www.amazon.com/Ledwholesalers-Gallium-Blacklight-Flashlight-7301uv365/dp/B004R831H0/ref=pd_sim_auto_25

Bill
TD24570
Bill Brown

Just bought the same one, Bill. Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud, I hope it helps you as much as it helped me.

Bill
TD24570
Bill Brown

Hello C.T. Do you have the copper washer under the head of the large brass nut? If you do try taking it off and heating it read hot to anneal the copper. Check that there are no scratches on the surface of the mating surfaces of the oil pump cover, copper gasket and the brass nut. I have never seen a nut that needed gasket compound of any kind. Did you try to flatten that surface for the nut with the glass and sandpaper trick? If you did you could have rounded the surface.
Let me know what you find. If you need further help contact me by email.

Butch
R Taras

What do you think of this product ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interdynamics-Professional-Leak-Detector-Kit/dp/B0055N92AG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392202178&sr=8-2&keywords=Fluorescent+Leak+Detection+Dye
It's ok ?
Roussel Didier

Looks as if it should do the trick quite well. Bud
Bud Krueger

Really try to exactly locate the leak before all of the effort pulling the pump. They can be really hard to locate and are often higher up and/or not from where you think they are. George
George Butz

Here is an inexpensive set. I just ordered it.

Glasses and light
http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-438-True-Light-Glasses/dp/B003JOB594/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392255445&sr=8-1&keywords=Interdynamics+Professional+UV+Leak+Detector+Kit

Dye
http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-376CS-Air-Conditioning-Universal/dp/B008QDXPFK/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_y

Mort
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Yes Mort, the kit is expensive but I don't find the Dye on french amazon ...
Roussel Didier

Roussel,
You should be able to get UV dye at any auto parts store.
These are links from some of our domestic stores and eBay.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Quest-1-oz-oil-and-UV-dye-clamshell/_/N-265k?itemIdentifier=667635_0_0_

http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/563222/00192/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-Purpose-UV-Dye-Use-in-Motor-Oil-Trans-Fluid-Gas-Power-Steering-Brake-/191005628659?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item2c78d298f3&vxp=mtr

I just checked the Sears web site for UV Dye Kit and they list over 500 items.

http://www.sears.com/search=uv%20dye%20kit?levels=Tools
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Didier,
GOOGLE fluorescein. It is used for drain tracing by builders
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I have just received the UV leak detector kit. I found several leaks :
1/ Front engine under crankshaft pulley (I will put a modern lip-type seal)
2/ Between oil pump body and the block (I will put carrefully new gasket with little silicon sealant)
3/ From the relief valve cover plug (I will change the cooper washer)
4/ From mounting screws (I will change the cooper washer and put silicone sealer on the copper washers and on the threads)
To be continued ...
Roussel Didier

Dicier, be very careful using silicone. I had a Jeep and the oil pressure gauge would bounce from zero to normal all the time. I thought it was a bad gauge and ignored it. The engine threw two rods one night. When I took it apart the oil pump was full of bits of silicone from a PO repair. I seldom use silicone on engine gaskets and only at manufactures recommendation.
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

Use permatex gasket cement on the oil pump. I believe it is called "the right stuff" or permetex #2. I'm sure so one more knollege able than I can provide the correct name.
-David
D. Sander

Thank you for answer.
David, have you got a link for the Permatex gasket cement ? In France, I am not sure to find that.
Roussel Didier

roussel, here are links to a few high performance products. regards, tom

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-33694-Right-Stuff-Gasket/dp/B000HBNWVG

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-form-a-gasket-no-2-sealant-detail

....or perhaps you would be interested in universal blue hylomar dressing/sealant...

http://www.amazon.com/Hylomar-Universal-Regular-Temperature-Sealant/dp/B00HLSUXYC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393296223&sr=8-1&keywords=hylomar+universal+blue
tm peterson

This thread was discussed between 09/02/2014 and 25/02/2014

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