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MG TD TF 1500 - Original TF Survivor Engine Color Please

I think it's about time someone show and original engine from a survivor in it's original un molested colors. There are too many variations out there and they all are supposed to be correct! In the eyes of the beholder I guess, but that doesn't cut it. Anyone have photos of a true survivor un molested engine? Just survivor photos please. PJ
Paul S Jennings

A search of "SURVIVOR TF" resulted in this,,,,

http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2013112801205031800

You just will not find a more complete survivor in any better condition !!

Steve
Steve Wincze

Steve, Thanks a million for showing those photos. Frank, you did a wonderful job and should be commended for getting these photos for the rest of the world to see! I just bought a complete set of grommets for the TF from Moss and discovered, because of these photos, not a damn one of them is correct! Moss is getting way down on my list for parts anymore. Man I love these photos! So much information. I also like Matthews car for correctness!

My tool box lid had the plate riveted on and this car shows screws and nuts. When my plate goes back on, it's going on with brass screws! I will pick these photos apart finding more of what's wrong with my car. Love it!
Paul S Jennings

PJ. Keep the rivets on the plate to the tool box.

There are some things with this car that has made some of us scratch our heads. This was one of them.

The plate was installed after the tool box was painted and the rivets should not be painted but natural. I plan on just masking the body # plate and the rivets the best I can to keep it original looking.

This car is great example how it was from the factory. The wiring, paint colors, under the bonnet, etc., are great examples but there are some things (some of the fasteners) that really threw us off.
Frank Cronin

How true this is, I have not a clue, but I heard that when the factory ran out of various bits during production, they sent a runner to the hardware store to get some of the items they were out of. Could be a cause for some minor changes. As the TFs were the last of the line, especially the 1500s, could this possibly be true? PJ
Paul S Jennings

Noticed the patent plate on the firewall appears to be aluminum and mine, 8353, is Brass. Screws instead of rivets on the tool box lid. Early TFs verses later ones?? I can't get away from these photos, very interesting! PJ
Paul S Jennings

In the era when these cars were built, Britain's economy was still struggling to rebuild. The factory was simply trying to build and sell cars. So whatever shade of paint happened to be in the gun that day was what was used. Variations did happen.
The factory was not worried about "originality".
Lew Palmer

Going to the hardware store to get fasteners and even paint to finish cars on the assembly line are often heard of as well. It even states in the owners manual that some tools may not be in your kit due to shortages.

One common example of using different fasteners is the hardware to the fuel tank chrome brackets to the back of the tub. It seems early TF's used hex bolts and later were phillips. Dont' know what the cut off was but both are correct.

In an earlier thread there was a question in regards to the pedal plate to fasten the rubber boot for the pedals. On mine there were split rivets which I will take a picture of. On some cars, they were just simple dome head phillip stlye heads. Not a major detail question but it helps us with the understanding of the times when these cars were made.

What is great about this forum is we have lots of people who can share knowledge about their cars for future restorers.

Last but not least, Dave Sander has done a fantastic job organizing GOF's featuring Survivor series of original TD and TF's for people to examine to accurately restore their cars. I've been to a few and it's helped me tremendously.

Frank Cronin

Photo above was from TF2217.

This is TF9052

Frank Cronin

Paul,
The set of pictures that Frank took of this amazing survivor TF is one of the best reference tools we have, but I don't think you can rely on this car to be completely original in every detail. The screws holding the plates on the tool box are the most glaring example. I doubt that the factory ran out of rivets and screwed the plates onto this car-more likely the plate was taken off to repaint the inside of the lid at some point, in my humble opinion. I have not seen this car in person but the photos look like there was some retouch here and there to maintain the car- I think the "lad" with the paintbrush at the factory is given too much credit. The fact that the owner plated the hand crank makes me wonder if he re-plated any of the fasteners to freshen them up. I think it is important to consider more than one example of original survivors if you are looking for factory originality.
JKB
J K Barter

<<Noticed the patent plate on the firewall appears to be aluminum and mine, 8353, is Brass. Screws instead of rivets on the tool box lid. Early TFs verses later ones?? I can't get away from these photos, very interesting! PJ >>

Your at one time looked like 9052 and just like this very early survivor TF. The plate was brass with a thin nickel flash with black paint filled in where the patent numbers are. Yours just simply wore off.

Chris Couper I believe posted a technique how to restore these if I am not mistaken.

Frank Cronin

Paul, paint fades and changes color over time due to many causes. On top of that, the color that you see on your monitor is affected by many parameters. The original color components are no longer available to make the paint. Have fun choosing a color and be happy with it. Bud
Bud Krueger

JKB: Never truer words spoken.

"I think it is important to consider more than one example of original survivors if you are looking for factory originality."
Christopher Couper

Hi All: I read a post some time back, not sure whether here or elsewhere, from a chap who, as a kid, was a errand runner for the MG factory at the time the TF was being built. He said that sales were so slow they did not have enough money to pay suppliers. He was often told to take a wheelbarrow to a nearby tractor manufactures warehouse and get (beg/borrow/buy?) a load of bolts, nuts, screws etc. He said that at this point everything and nothing were original as far as fasteners were concerned.
Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

Here is the body plate for my TF9097 showing the original rivets. Note that it was assembled on the same day as TF9052.

Matthew.

M Magilton

I'm always intrigued by arguments about paint colours. One of the classic debates is about TC firewall grey.
I like to visualise the boss of the paint shop near Abingdon shouting something like "Joe, MG needs some more grey. Dump a bit of black in the white and take it round."

Merry Xmas, David
D A Provan

True to the original is as "original" as one can strive for I think. One person's "original" car is going to be a "nice try" to what another thinks is "original".

Strive for the best you can do but don't think for a minute there's not going to be another "expert" who will find flaws.
Gene Gillam

If no one can agree what is ABSOLUTELY original..then what the heck difference does it make? See all the supposed originals examples and then just do an average....you'll be alright unless you want to go to concours.

Brian
ZBMan

"you'll be alright unless you want to go to concours"

Trust me. That's the last place originality will be considered :-)
Christopher Couper

"you'll be alright unless you want to go to concours

Trust me. That's the last place originality will be considered :-)"

Agreed! I've seen cars punished for not having "MG CAR COMPANY" script threshold strips, for having painted exhausts and chassis hardware, not having wooden dashboards (LATE TC/TD) having the "optional" dual carbs, etc. ugh.
I entered the TD in a concours, once. The chief judge introduced himself to me and asked me who did such a fine job restoring my TD. When I told him I did, and I had pictures,paperwork and documentation going back to the day the car was sold in 1953 he said "yes, but who did the restoration? Who painted it and did the body work?" When I said that I did, he rudely turned and walked away without saying a word. I never saw him again.
Lesson learned, the blood in my veins is not blue enough to play the "concours" game.
These cars were meant to be driven and enjoyed.
-David
D. Sander

This thread was discussed between 22/12/2014 and 25/12/2014

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