MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Panel alignment and radiator angle

Just completed my mock up of the panels before I dismantle it and send it off for painting

....don't think anyone has any idea how long we spend on these cars to get them perfect...

anyway I am not happy with the line from the bonnet through to the tub.
I had no problem with the passenger side but the drivers side is wrecking my head.

The tub just appears to be too low. Does this mean I have to reattach the firewall 1mm lower on this side. I suppose alternatively I could sand down the wood the bonnet and rubber sit on.

My second problem is the radiator as it's positioned currently it's not aligned correctly with the sides. The radiator needs to lean back more or the lower part pulled out slightly. The difference is only 1 mm and is covered by the wings but I can't get the final 2 bolts from the wing into the radiator.
Is there any adjustment on the raking of the radiator.

Pictures attached

Thanks for any advice.


D Lamb

Hi D Lamb, I spent a long time fitting my bonnet and sides to even get it close, I had to make adjustments to the bolt holes to make things line up. PO had also elongated some of the holes.
The radiator has the two threaded rod adjustments either side to adjust the radiator, fortunately my gap in the side panel will be covered by the piping.
Regards, Don TF 4887 "Figaro"
Don Walker

Hi D Lamb,

Fiirsly,if you are working in close millimetres,you are doing well !
TFs,no doubts,are one of the hardest Classic cars to get the body to align in all planes well.

Slacken the radiator saddle bolts (the nuts of the studs under the chassis cross member) before adjusting the radiator stay threading.

Check that you have the correct rubber 'doughnuts' in the correct positions above and below the radiator cross member.

The body tub to chassis frame packing thickness can also influence
the side panel to front quarter panel alignment. It is good to see the top edge of the side engine panel in smooth alignment with the lower side edge of the scuttle top. Also the lower, folded edge of the side engine panel aligns with the bottom edge of the front quarter panel.
Many expensively restored TFs have the erroneous 'saw tooth' look
when looking at the front guards to running boards to rear guard bottom edges when viewed from the side !

Sometimes POs,have taken a dreaded file to the side engine panels front edges where it 'meets' the radiator shell flange,thereby making it pretty frustrating to fit back closely as you obviously want.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Darryl, I had to buy new side panels and replace the bonnet, both sides, I know your frustration. I used my bonnet as a guide, knowing that it's easier to adjust the side panels than the bonnet by trimming. New side panels are approximately 6" too long and marking and cutting them on a sheet metal shear is a scary experience. In your case, I would do anything I could to adjust the radiators position, so you don't have to adjust the panels by trimming.
I also installed new wood between the firewall and scuttle, it required recurving to get the bonnet to fit properly. I had my car together and apart so many times to make things fit, I didn't think I'd ever get it done, but it all worked out in the end. Yes, to get everything to fit, TFs are a royal PITA!! Can't tell you how many times I walked away from mine, once for a whole month due to frustrating problems on getting this thing right. Yours will come together eventually, because you want it perfect, it will be. PJ
Paul161

Darryl, I forgot to mention, the cowl rubber from Moss is thicker than the original, which will raise the bonnet, the one from B&G is as close to the original rubber, in looks, fit and thickness, (thinner), which helps in bonnet fit, aside from trimming the wood. PJ
Paul161

I'm with PJ on the Moss cowl rubber. I'm sure you can eliminate most of your problem there by using the correct rubber. If you raise the tub you'll also raise the bonnet (hood) & so you won't alter the relationship between the two. I imagine there is also some adjustment at the 4 bonnet securing points. If the bonnet were to be pulled down more onto the rubber it would sit a little lower in relation to the scuttle & so improve the alignment with the cowl to front quarter panel seam. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Great advice guys...I forget how much I rely on this forum not just for the advice from guys who have gone through exactly the same issues but also for the motivation you give me....don't feel to bad about dismantling it again for the 5 time....the kids might think I am mad though. But as you say Paul we want it perfect and it will be.

So back to the issue at hand. Firewall has nothing to do with it and raising or lowering it will have no effect...thus I was dreading but a closer inspection cleared this up.

That leaves the thickness of the rubber or the wood on the tub being proud.
The whole bonnet along the tub edge is definately proud and steps down which doesn't look right.

I didn't realise these rubbers we buy both at the radiator end and cowl are too thick. Moss will hear of my frustrations.

So new rubbers from B&G I think is my initial starting point. If I cam get the bonnet correct there is lots of play in the sides to get the rest perfect.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and continued interest.

D Lamb

It does not seem that the rubber would be the main problem, since the top edge of the side panel is too high-is the panel bolted down to the bracket on the side of the bulkhead? Try loosening that bracket and see if there is any adjustment to be had there as well as loosening the bolts to the side of the frame and radiator and see if you can shift things into alignment. It helped when I did mine.
JK Barter

I agree with JK. First find out why the side panel top does not align up perfectly with the body seam. Once that is done you can play with the rubber or get a different set if needed. While it's nice for the bonnet to be the same height as the top of the body scuttle, nobody will notice if it's 1/8" different. But not having the seam line up with the top of the hood panel will stick out big time (Rob's sawtooth comment).

As I remember you are sort of stuck with the height of the side panels based on where they attach to the frame. This means that you have to change the height of the tub using shims. The shims are also used to change the geometry of the door openings so its a long and arduous task to get all of this right, even more so on a TF IMHO.

And whatever you do make sure the left and right sides of the car match.

Christopher Couper

I seem to remember the holes in the side panels where it bolts to the frame were somewhat oversized to allow some play.
JB
JK Barter

Having had a close look again at the pic supplied it still seems to me that if the rubber were removed entirely & the bonnet sat in place then the top of the bonnet would align with the scuttle & the side seams would also align. This suggests to me that as PJ says, the problem lies either with the height of the scuttle rubber timber or the thickness of the rubber, or both. I do agree that by adjusting the positions of the four attachment points down, the entire bonnet assembly would be pulled down & sit a little lower.

Chris's comment about the door geometry is valid & looking at the top of the door in relation to the scuttle, something doesn't look quite right. On my TD there is a smooth transition from the scuttle through the line of the top of the door. Unless TF's differ from TD's in this regard & are supposed to be like this, maybe shimming the front of the tub would address this & also help with the bonnet alignment issue? Fiddly but fixable I reckon. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Good comment J K Barter the TF side engine panel holes re adjustment available. Further,these holes are 'angled and eliptical' to enhance the side panel adjustment. Very different set up compared to a TD. Very small movements effect the panel height and alignments.

Cheers.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Peter,
Keep in mind that the TF side panels are fixed to the body and frame, unlike the on TD- so the timber and rubber would not affect the height of the side panel. From the image it does look like like shimming the tub might improve the issue with the door height but I don't know if the front of the tub can be shimmed to help with the side panel alignment as it is secured to the frame at the front.
JB
JK Barter

Paul,
On my TD (and I realise you are speaking about a TF) I would like my bonnet to fit a little better. The thickness of the rubber on my cowl is 3/16" which came from Moss. You say the rubber from B&G is thinner.
Would you be able to measure the thickness of the rubber from B&G please?
Thanks.
John...Sydney
J Walton

John, I just measured my cowl rubber and it's 1/8th inch thick. There are two issues with the Moss rubber, thicker, stiffer and it has a "birds beak" on the part that lays on the scuttle which makes it near impossible to get the flat part that lays on the wood completely down without nailing it very close to the lip, which in turn, will hold the bonnet up higher than it should be. Using the Moss rubber, unless your bonnet is very tight against the lip, some of the nails will show. The B&G rubber is 90 degrees on the lip which makes it lay flat the way it should and the nails can be put more in the center where, in my estimation, they should be. Being thinner it lays down nice and much easier to work. Someone once said that Moss is selling this correct rubber now, but I haven't seen it yet. Hope this helps. PJ
Paul161

Thanks guys..removed the rubber and everything lines up correctly. The B&G rubber is winging it's way to me and a very small bit if sanding to the wood should allow for a perfect fit. Pics to follow.
D Lamb

Thats great Darryl! Restoring these cars is tough enough. Trying to do the job with the wrong/ill-fitting/sub-standard parts, just makes things way more difficult than needs be. I just wish we had a B&G outlet here, along with a few of the others who make the effort to carry the correct stock. Thanks for sharing & I'm pleased we could help. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

There is also a rubber strip laced into the radiator shell which can affect the fit. The Moss rubber strip I bought several years ago was too thick. Does anyone know if that has been corrected by Moss? Has anyone recently bought this rubber lacing and found it to be correct? If so, who supplied it? Regards, John
JR Mahone

I purchased a roll of rubber insertion 1/32" thick X 1" wide from Clarke Rubber in Sydney. I had to cut it to size width wise and then laced that around the radiator shell. Worked well and I am more than happy with the result. Cost, very little.
John...Sydney
J Walton

John, when I purchased the car in 1969 my rubber strip had been replaced by the woven green canvas webbing that was fitted to the earlier T Types & seems to have found its way (incorrectly) onto a lot of TD's here. I find I can get some useful rubber components from a chain called Clarke Rubber here in Oz, including the thin radiator rubber that you speak of. I also purchased some rubber from them in my first attempt at assembling the windscreen, as the Moss rubber was again too thick. The strip was too wide & again still just a tad too thick (in the end I went with black poly), so I used the offcut around the radiator. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

D Lamb: I cannot tell by your picture but are you putting the rubber on top of the edge of the scuttle and not just against it? That would totally mess up your panel alignment if you did not make the step with the rubber. Note with the Moss rubber it is next to impossible to do this with some trimming and/or two people involved.

JR and others: You can find a source for the thinner rubber strip on these pages:

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_nitty.htm
Christopher Couper

The B&G rubber strip is the correct shape and thickness. It was identical with what came off my car anyway, and seems to fit well.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Similar problem with the radiator rubber from Moss. Bought both of these last year. No idea what they sell now but getting both from B&G.
Chris I was fitting it correctly on the wood with the birds beak over the edge. Just too thick.
Not sure why the pics didn't post.

Ps wait until you see my gold gearbox...you will need sunglasses 😂

D Lamb

My 1250 TF at some point in the first 10 years of its life received a 1500 XPEG Goldseal Replacement Engine. After much consultation I have decided to repaint it Gold...below is the completed Gearbox.....get your sunglasses out 😂

D Lamb

The only pic I have of it in the early stages of dismantling

D Lamb

I had bronze shocks once!



Christopher Couper

Huh....I had Bronze Shocks on an A. Always wondered about that.

Mike
TF-8257
M Brand

I think the bronze shocks were replacements from Armstrong. I did not know any better so they went on as they came out of the box. :-)
Christopher Couper

This thread was discussed between 14/05/2016 and 19/05/2016

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now