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MG TD TF 1500 - Please Listen - Need Input

I've had my '53 TD for about 10 years, and the engine has always been noisy (at least in my opinion). But, it goes like a champ. Tappets were adjusted to .015 about 5 years ago, but car only has 500 miles or so since. (major illness got in the way of driving pleasure).

I'd like opinions if the clatter is from tappets, valves, or rockers, or all of the above. I don't know if the car ever was converted for unleaded with hardened seats or not, but I doubt it.

So please listen to the video here, and any input will be very appreciated.

http://vid939.photobucket.com/albums/ad234/G26ster/SDC11002_zpsmfhqsrcv.mp4
L Karpman

I hear high pitched tappet/rocker clatter (somewhat normal) and low pitched clunking (not so normal).

Could be wrist pins, con rod. Not yet ready to say mains. I'd also suspect cam shaft end float and chain slap due to a dab tensioner.

Sorry, but this likely won't be corrected without a little surgery.

Over the 'web, my take.
MAndrus

Valve cover, Sometimes they get put on just a little off. Try loosing it a bit and move it back and forth - side to side to see if it goes away.
Does the clunking follow the engine speed?

M Grogan

Thanks guys. Agree that the higher pitched noise is the tappets, but the lower pitched noise is the part that really concerns me. I have plans to replace the tappets, and will try moving the valve cover around. Hadn't considered the tensioner and end float but it's a possibility of course.

My main problem is me. I can describe in detail gas turbine engines (they're really simple), but when it comes to piston engines, I'm really dumb :-( But alas, there are no turbine engine T Series cars (at least that I know of :-)

More comments will be appreciated.
L Karpman

I agree with M Andrus. I hear the typical MG valve clatter but also a lower pitch clunk. Before surgery the oil pressure and compression check might yield additional insight. Was the recording a warm-up idle? Is the sound the same after a good hard run at full temperature for a half hour or so? More info more opinions.

Best regards,

Jim Haskins 1953 TD

P.S. My valves got much louder when I got the new hearing aids.
J M Haskins

Sounds like an MG to me but I think my hearing is not as good as it used to be.

Will I start a war asking why you have your valves set to .015 instead of .012?
Christopher Couper

"Will I start a war asking why you have your valves set to .015 instead of .012?"

Seemed to be the consensus I read in the archives, and where John Twist sets them. Or, did I misunderstand what I read? Wouldn't be the first time.

The recording was made at warm idle, but not after a run. Very good oil pressure at idle and at speed.
L Karpman

Sounds normal to me as well.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I only hear one or two clicking tappets. Suggest remove valve cover, drape towel over the rockers, start engine, slip feeler gauge through one at a time. When the clacking stops, you found the loose one. Very common for the rocker tip to wear so there so the feeler gauge bridges the actual clearance. The deeper noise is a little more concerning to me. Try removing the belt to rule out water pump/dynamo. Also note if pushing the clutch in changes or stops the deeper noise. Replacing the tappets would accomplish nothing. George
George Butz

Larry, could this be the knocking sound of too much advance? How much advance do you run?
Huib Bruijstens

If you disconnect the oil feed at the head and blank the banjo with a nut/bolt/rubber washers you can run the engine without oil painting the ceiling.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I had the same knock/tapping sound and sought advice from this site a few months ago. I have a stethoscope and the noise was loudest if I placed the probe in the centre of the carb balancer pipe. After months of frustration I took off the cylinder head and removed the valves. I found the rocker shaft and some of the bushes to be worn and one of the oil slinger tubes that surround the valve stem was bent at an angle and was touching the guide. It had cracked the guide. I replaced the guide, had all the seats machined and fitted a new slinger tube and collet retainer. A new rocker shaft and honed bushes were fitted. The engine now literally hums along. I cann't say what the problem was but it must have been one of the above. I would recommend you buy/steal/borrow a stethoscope and have a good listen around. Be careful of the fan though. It would be worth listening to the tubes in the head that the push rods go through. It is possible one of the rods is bent and touching the tube.

Jan T
J Targosz

I had an idea for diagnosing these kind of problem but it would necesitate equipment and engineering hours.
The idea is to have a scope connected to the microphone

Spectrum analyzer and filter would possibly be useful to match the clattering sound with the plotted sound peak

The scope would be synchronized with the TDC (or ignition) of one cylinder. The plot of sound would immediately reveal if the problem is linked to the crankshaft, to one cylinder, or to the frequency of the water pump. That way, it is probably possible to identify the valve/rocker/tapet or cam causing the noise.
Moving the sound sensor through places would enable to find the precise element.

Never had time to try this method.

Laurent.

LC Laurent31

Thanks for all the input guys. Lots to check so far.
L Karpman

A recording of slightly revving, and then easing off, the engine would help.
R A WILSON

hello. I had a simular noice when i started
the engine some time ago.I see you have a lot of vibration on your engine. on mine it vas thefan touching the outlet on the bottom
of the radiator.
Thoralf. Norway TD 4490
Thoralf Sorensen (TD4490)

So far, with stethoscope, clatter is loudest at the valve cover, but I guess that is to be expected (echo chamber?). Haven't moved the cover around yet, but will when it stops raining again (things get wet in the garage when door is opened, and I need to vent the exhaust). Checked at water pump, tappets, carb rail, where normal(to me)buzz is heard. Fan not touching anything. Valve slamming a seat a possibility? Working on it, but I'm no mechanic.
L Karpman

My revving has a double v, not a w.
R A WILSON

With that low tone knock, I would not take this car out until I knew for sure where it was coming from. I had that sound in mine a number of years ago and it was a rod bearing. That would keep me up at night.

Bill TD24570
Bill Brown

Take your aluminum cover off and check the inside for were and the valve side. Sounds like a spring/ retainer hitting the side of the cover. Tweak the retainer studs ever so slightly to gain the needed clearance.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W. A. Chasser

Bill: Not bad advice. A number of the AL valve covers did have clearance issues and it will be pretty evident when you pull the cover.
Christopher Couper

Check the lower banjo (oil gallery to the head) internal diameter reduced to .055".
See WSM A.45
Also with the engine running at a high idle pull off 1 spark plug wire at a time using insulated spark plug wire pliers, and short to ground, to see if the noise goes away.
Len Fanelli

Will do Len, Thanks.
L Karpman

This thread was discussed between 07/11/2016 and 11/11/2016

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