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MG TD TF 1500 - Question for our American friends

A TD or TF fitted with a Volvo engine is worth substantially less than one with an original EXPAG. In the UK we can watch many American, car related, TV programmes on the Discovery chanels. I've seen many where a Model A Ford has a modern engine and transmission fitted and the value increases. Also these modern "crate" engines appear to be readilly availble and cheap. Ancillary parts such as conversion engine mountings can be bought and deliverd overnight. Why are T series immune to this "updating".

Jan T
J Targosz

Are the upgrades you are refering to Hi performance engines? If so, there is what we call "American Muscle". A joy of taking what is considered "classic" and building it into a powerhouse of beauty and and strength. And although Americans who love the sport of building and collecting such beautiful cars also generally have an appreciation for all cars foreign as well, I believe they enjoy them more as original as possible. Thus, Upgrades to cars foreign to the U.S. have less value and upgrades to certain types of "American Muscle" have greatly increased value. Hope this is what your question was refering to.

All in my opinion of course,

Rob
Rob Welborne

...and a Hot Rod takes on value of its own...no longer really pertaining to the original model....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

The American Hot rod phase grew out of the drag racing and bootlegger era of "Hopping" up essentially worn out or junk cars with high power engines. This the became a fad, particularly in California of taking particularly prewar cars of little collector value and modifying both the body and drive train to unusual standards. For example putting a 427 cu in V8 Hemi in a cut down 1936 DeSoto Coupe with a modern deluxe interior and some late model car running gear. "One of a Kind" whose value was seen in it's uniqueness rather than it's conformity to a given model.



Don Harmer

I think in part it has to do with how visually tasteful the "updating" is. For example, a lovely 19th century Chippendale chest could be updated by cutting a hole in it and fitting a hi-def flat screen TV, but few would find that to be an improvement. Some things, like fitting a 5 speed transmission, may actually add value to a T series by making the car more useful on modern roads, but since it is virtually invisible unless you crawl under the car it is deemed more acceptable.
Jack Long

Another consideration is that, by and large (exceptions exist like Willis) the starting cars were mass produced. There are enough correctly restored and survivors around so that modifying what, perhaps might just be past restoration and junked by "modernizing it" is forgivable.

The "T" series has a limited base to work form and some of us hate to see any broken up for parts or modified by dropping a small block anything into it. However there are those who just cant resist "improving" the breed.
I can remember seeing, back around 1962 a flat head Ford V-8 dropped into a T series.

I had a boss who owned a first year Corvette, the one that came from the factory with a 6 cylinder engine. He dropped a large Lincoln V-8 into it, thus loosing hundreds of thousands of dollars in today's market.

We see a lot of later Corvettes with engine swaps. It may hurt the value even then since matching numbers cars bring more but not to the extent of loosing the the original 6 cylinder.

Just my thoughts

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_remuddled.htm
Christopher Couper

I know conversions with more power for the TD were not uncommon in the 50's and 60's. A I have not seen a lot at shows, I have to wonder if these conversions were either too hard on the car or made for a very dangerous ride and they crashed.

I picked up a TD that had been sitting in a field for many years. Very few usable parts left, but the frame was there. It had been modified for a V8. The round crossmember had been cut so there was barely 2 inches of the bottom of the pipe left. Got to believe with all that torque, it had to be less than safe.
Bruce Cunha

In the US there is a big following for Restomods or Restorods. These are old cars fitted with modern engines and drivetrains, custom or hot rod wheels, and other comfort accessories like air conditioning and modern sound systems. While not the taste of the TD set, who are usually into keeping their cars original, I can understand doing this if the car is otherwise shot and there are a lot of them around. Model T's are not rare and not very valuable, so T buckets with hotrod engines are not unusual here in California. While I have tried to make my cars as original as possible, i do believe that safety items like seat belts are an improvement over the original cars. And I appreciate that some of the workmanship that goes into these cars is well done. There are also some that are not well done, so it is a matter of taste.
Ira Spector

These cars and a lot of others were not regarded as valuable merchandise back in the late 50s and 60s, even into the 70s by most people. There were a lot of them in used car lots and junk yards. They could be picked up for practically nothing and they became a perfect candidate for hopping up and making changes that today we find objectionable. Very few back then wanted to preserve these cars as originals. They weren't anything with class, such as a Jag, so most were treated as such. Popular Mechanics magazine back in the 60s actually ran an article about how to install a small block Chevy in a TD. Never forget it as the car was painted Orange! If I ran across a derelict TD/TF, missing all it's running gear plus what ever else, it wouldn't bother me at all to put a modern drive train in it. I would rather do that than let it rot in the weeds somewhere. Bottom line, before we shoot someone for committing the ultimate sin of conversion, we need to know the whole story. I still can't except the TD painted in John Deere colors though. Just My Honest Opinion. PJ
Paul S Jennings

I have Volvo air-cleaners on my '66 GT but would not use them on my MGA or TF as I value these two cars more.
David Werblow

Allow me to offer a different perspective on the hot-rodding of my TD:

When I found my TD in April of 2005 it was headed for the wreckers, so there was never any sense that I was taking a gem and butchering it. With the exception of the 5-speed, the alternator, the electronic ignition, the front MGB swaybar, the shoulder belts and Bob Grunau's 12" drums, my TD has equipment that could have could have been acquired in 1958 - the Judson, the 16" wheels and Michelins, the long cam, the cycle fenders, the MGA diff, the hand-welded header and the Stebro exhaust - all could have been cobbled up by a pre-60's crazy guy who wanted a TD that was a lot faster than stock.

"Safety Fast" in the UK in 1953 meant 50 MPH on two-lane roads all across the country. Today in western Canada, "Safety Fast" means 75 or 80 MPH on four-lane expressways for 500 miles at one go - with the braking power and reliability to match. I see that on the website that Christoper Couper mentioned here, there's a "Down Under Dystopia" that looks a lot like mine - that's a bit unsettling, because I think that builder might have had the same vision as me - I'll include a picture of his and mine and let you decide for yourself.

My goal was simply this - if by some magic MG has been able to build a 1953 TD Magnette as a continuation of the '30's racing Magnettes, what would it have looked like? Maybe I'm insanely wide of the mark, but I'd like to think that mine is in the sprit of an MGB V8 - a lot faster than stock, but something that is still essentially an MGTD.

It's fast, it's reliable, and if I drive it in slippers or no-heel driving shoes, it's even comfortable. If I hadn't taken on this crazy/stupid/ beautiful project [with the help of the lads on this BBS, thank you again] my car would have been unceremoniously been parted out on eBay - I think mine is the better end for the car.

Respectfully,
Dave

Dave Jorgensen

Yours is very tastefully done, a credit to you and the car. Good job. I have seen many cars that the owner was restoring to "original" that looked like crap. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Larry Brown

T-series cars already look cool, handle well, and are fun to drive. Whether a Model A or one of the 50's/60's sedan , most of those cars were slow and handled very poorly. The so called muscle cars had horrible suspension and brakes as well. Ira's comments spot on about modern amenities and the quantities made and still around. I'm sure it would cost less to restomod something like a late 60s Camaro (small block crate motor, modern suspension, disk brakes, AC, etc.) than to restore as original. It would be a heck of a lot more fun to drive too! George
George Butz

David W. Did you mean Volvo or Vokes air cleaners?

Cheers,
Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew,

They maybe made by Vokes as are those on my MGA, but they are stamped Volvo. I've had them up in the attic for 30+ years in their original Volvo boxes.

David Werblow

The cover plates are similar but the mesh in different.

David Werblow

Isn't it the filter back plates that are different? The one on my TF are angled to follow the line of the bonnet.


Jan T
J Targosz

Jan,

You are correct. Both the cover and back plates on the TF
are angled, Those of both the early Volvo and the MGA are straight and wider than those of the TF.
David Werblow

Here's what the TF Volks look like, as being repos, only the screen is wrong, the originals have round holes in them. The material is available to make the screens as original, but I'm not going that far yet. PJ

Paul S Jennings

This thread was discussed between 11/01/2014 and 13/01/2014

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