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MG TD TF 1500 - Rear Crank Seal

Just been watching a rerun of the Wheeler Dealers episode where Mike and Edd restore a MGA at their Californian workshop. They fit a lip seal to the B Series engine. I know this is different to the EXPAG but the machining work carried out by Epic Precision is really interesting. Pitty the job isn't as simple, or reliable, on one of our engines

Jan T
J Targosz

Jan - Moss Motors in the US has been supplying a kit to do the same thing for the XPAG/XPEG engines for quite a number or years. For the most part, the modification has worked very well for those who want to spend the time and machining costs to do a proper installation. Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Hi Dave,

I am familiar with the Moss Kit. My brother who has run a precision engineering business for over 30 years has fitted a modified seal to his TF three times and is still not confident he has cured the leak. That's why I mention reliability in my initial posting. What intrigued me with the MGA conversion is the way they machine the seal so the metal case is a "L" section rather "U" and attach it with small screws. How they grip the seal in the lathe to modify the case beats me.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

There's been extensive discussion of this over on the Yahoo TABC mailing list, with equal number of people thinking that with all the difficulties of fitting the Moss seal, the original scroll system, if fitted correctly, does a good job.

For myself, a seal kit was fitted by B&G and I have no leaks. I can't believe it either.

David
David Wardell

The biggest problem with the rear seal modification is that you don't really know if the seal failed or if oil is coming from any of the other 9 places it can leak from.
Steve Simmons

Yes, I have studied rear crank leaks. I designed a lip seal running on FRESHLY MACHINED exposed rear crank flange about 1987. I made several hundred and sent many overseas including Belgium, Germany and Switzerland during the following 12 years or so. They work! BUT, there is a VERY IMPORTANT point which applies to ALL seal methods. See image, which is a scan of one page of my instructions. The area shaded MUST BE SEALED WHATEVER SEAL SYSTEM IS USED! (Silicon)

I sent one sample of my seal kit to B&G and a couple to USA. I have never seen a B&G seal but strangely, the Moss seal (which became available about a year after mine) originally had instructions with some wording similar to mine. However, the Moss seal had differences which I don't like. I stipulated a 3/8" (10mm) return drain hole. I think the Moss hole size is MUCH too small and could result in pressure forming behind the rear main, forcing oil to leak. The new Moss instructions, which a friend sent me, do not point out the need to seal the area shown in my instructions (see image). I can not see why the Moss kit does not suggest machining a fresh surface on the rear flange. Instead they try to run the seal on a chamfered? corroded? punch/vice marked? flange or fit a speedy sleeve! Why not simply machine a fresh surface, leaving the back 3mm (1/8") to locate the flywheel?

Yes, my seal, Moss seal and B&G seal are all fiddly things to fit but they are all attempting to fit an engine which was not designed for them. Great care must be taken when fitting. Sorry I no longer make seal kits as I have grandkids to babysit and a couple of MGs to keep running/racing!

I will post an image of my seal during manufacture. ("Cottage industry") Good luck with the oil leaks.

Bob Schapel South Australia



R L Schapel

Image of my seal during machining on a "dummy" block.

Bob Schapel, South Australia

R L Schapel

Does anyone have a part number for the new Teflon seal used with the Moss Kit or is it only available from Moss?​ The reason I ask is that I have a older Moss kit (#433-415)(Moss Garage Part #MG863) with a Speedi-Sleeve (#433-425). The kit was probably purchased 15 years ago. Since I inherited this kit I'm not exactly sure of the kits age. The number on the seal that apparently came with this kit is: CR-37388-USA. The outside metal circumference of the seal is painted green.
Thanks,
Mark Stolzenburg
Chesterfield, Missouri
TF 8263
Mark Stolzenburg

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2016 and 15/07/2016

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