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MG TD TF 1500 - Removing studs on exhaust flange

The two big studs on my exhaust manifold-to-pipe flange are proving hard to get out. I'm heating and wd-40'ing alternately, so far no movement.
Anybody got any suggestions on good ways to get these out?
Thanks!
Geoffrey M Baker

"The two..."? Can I assume you got one out, since there are three?

I just did the swap, and used a stud remover and 24" breaker bar for one, broke one and couldn't get the third to move. I had to use a torch (a real one, not dinky propane) to heat up the manifold for the one, and drill out and clean the threads for the third. The manifold and studs go through a lot of heating and cooling cycles, and can be a real bear to remove. I have also had to weld a nut to a broken stud, the heating of which helps loosen the stud, and which can then be wrenched out.

By the way, did you ever get the carb linkage bolt I sent? It's been a few weeks, and I would have expected it to get there by now.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

t lange

WD-40 is NOT a god penetrating fluid (regardless of what the 101 uses for WD-40 says). Kroil or 50 -50 mixture of acetone and ATF are the two best penetrates and as Tom states, a good welding torch is what is really needed (the tried and true brute force and bloody ignorance usually always prevails). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

A PO drilled one of them out and replaced it with a regular bolt, so I am left with two... Tom, yes I did and I thought I had emailed you back... Thanks so much!
Geoffrey M Baker

Goeff,
A long time ago, I had a snapped stud,, I tried to weld a nut on it. When we hit it with the electricity, it actually "shocked" the stud loose! I guess it broke the rust??? I'm not sure what it did , but the stud came out real easy...

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Well, I put some torque on them this morning (large pipe wrench) after heating some more.
So the easy fix is, put torque on them, snap them both off, now no need to spend a week heating & wd-40ing them; I just need to drill them out and chase the threads.
Boy, have I saved some time :)
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoffrey, I cut the studs off on mine and set the manifold up on a drill press with the flange good and square to the spindle, drilled and tapped the holes. Installed new studs using a high temperature copper filled grease. I went this route for fear for breaking the cast iron flange on the manifold.

Bill
TD24570
Bill Brown

I agree with Bill. Geoffrey as an old engineer this is the safest and best way to overcome your problem. If you can use brass nuts as this will overcome any futire problems shuoild you wish to disassemble your exhaust system in the future.
John
xhrpoqjbnc

Can somebody please set mt straight. I've not encountered the problem yet, but my budget for this year includes getting my manifold jet-coated and that will undoubtedly mean removing the manifold bolts which haven't moved for 60 years.

If I should break one or more, I tend to favour Bill Brown's solution.

Then there's the issue of replacing them.

Can somebody please tell me the best bolt or stud as a replacement so that I don't have to go down this road again (if I should live that long!). Is stainless an option? with brass nuts? And what lubricant, if any.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Gord, I would use stainless steel studs if possible with brass nuts. As a lubricant use a copper base grease.
John...Sydney
xhrpoqjbnc

Brass nuts as original are available at www.theframeup.com

I just had my manifold and clamps aluminized. It was $50 to blast it clean and another $50 to recoat it. Pricey.
Chris Couper

Chris, what is "aluminized"? I haven't heard of it.
Geoffrey M Baker

A stud that has been snapped off flush or below can be burned out with an oxy/acetylene cutting torch. Steel burns but cast iron not so much. Drill right through the broken stud, heat to kindling temp and burn out quickly with a little higher than normal O2 pressure. Don't spend too much time as you don't want to melt the iron. When you're done sometimes you hardly need to run a tap through. You can burn the stud out leaving the threads in the cast iron untouched.

Drilling through gives the slag somewhere to go. It only takes a 1/8th hole.

Admittedly this is not for the faint of heart, especially the first time, and you might seek out someone at a muffler shop who's familiar with the technique.

I have great luck mig welding a grade 8 nut on broken studs as Tom stated. Wrench them out before they cool.

Heating with anything other than an O/A torch generally just isn't enough. You have to heat until just before melting to get badly rusted studs out.
JE Carroll

Well, you can do like the PO of my car did an braze them in.
Bruce Cunha

Geoff: Aluminizing is the original exhaust manifold and clamp finish - a spray of molten aluminum coats the whole thing, and gives a nice almost solver-white grainy surface. Many people prefer to have the manifolds Jet-Koted, which significantly reduces underbonnet temp. No finish of heir matches exactly, though - see the archives for cheaper places.

Chris - Can you let me know who does this? I thought the one and only guy gave up? I have half a dozen manifolds I could get coated.

Best, Tom
t lange

Tom: I had it done at American Stripping in Sacramento.

http://www.americanstrippingsacramento.com/metalSpray.html

When I went down there they stared at me and finally after walking it through three layers I got to a guy who remembered 'the old days' and I was set.

They might give you a bulk discount :-)
Chris Couper

Should I soak the studs with Kroil / PB Blaster etc for a couple of days before I try to remove my intake and exhaust manifolds -- or should I first attempt to do so dry? I haven't tried to loosen them yet.

Trying to plan ahead ...

I will be removing the head on my TF-1500 next week at a shop that is about 45 minutes from my house, so the engine will be at full operating temp for a while. I don't want to cause any extra problems by baking penetrating solvent into the threads. And I don't want to do a newbee screw-up and snap off a stud before I get to the shop - that's why I haven't attempted to loosen the nuts on the studs.

By the way, I have heard about Kroil but haven't seen it for sale locally. Where should I look to buy?

Thanks for your advice,

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie,

You won't hurt anything by driving after soaking the nuts. Unless they look really good I don't even try to remove an exhaust nut from a stud without lots of heat.

Jim
JE Carroll

If a nut is really stuck to the point the stud is ready to twist off, try this: Loosen/remove the exhaust hangers/bracket from the tranny all the way back, loosen/remove the manifold clamps, and slide it off of the head studs with pipe attached, and/or unscrew the studs from the head. Then just jack the car up a bit and remove the pipe/manifold from underneath. Then you can easily get to the nut to heat, etc. George PS-if you are going to Will's shop he will know what to do.
George Butz

Thanks, Jim and George. I'll look at the condition of the intake/exhaust nuts and studs this weekend and soak them with penetrating oil.

> George - You guessed correctly. I will be with Will at his shop next Tuesday. He is the Master and I am the Grasshopper. I though that my head was gonna explode with new MG knowledge the first time I visited his shop. I'm looking forward to working with him on my project. He found a "real" AEF118 TF-1500 head and has it prepped to replace the TC/TD 22952 head that is currently on my engine.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Lonnie,

The only place I have been able to find Kroil is online on the company website. It does work really good and smells way better than PB Blaster that has a funky smell. I have a quart in the garage and I refill the smaller bottles when needed. If you place an order, they send you also a free can of Aerosol.

Off topic, another great use for Kroil is cleaning gun barrel fouling and removing stubborn lead in the rifling. Soak the barrel and leave for an hour and start brushing. Be sure to wear gloves since I understand it is not that healthy for the skin and use in a well ventilated area.

http://www.kanolabs.com/penLub.html#anchor173855



Frank Cronin

Wish I could come hang out with you and Will and/or help, but have to work. Should be a great time as well. Tell Will B. that Will (my son) and I said hi! George
George Butz

JE, your method sounds good, maybe you should offer it as a service... I don't have an OA torch and when I asked about it, the guy just shook his head and said "No"... so that's not an option for me, I'm afraid.
I've taken it to a guy who can weld cast iron and he will fix the crack I found and also fill in and redrill and retap the two stud holes (I guess I'll leave the third one as a bolt, some PO drilled it out long ago and put in a bolt).
I'll lose concourse points but hey, I knew I'd never have Lily Christine IV in a show...
Geoffrey M Baker

A nickel based anti seize compound will out perform a copper based equivalent. Quality of products vary ensure you purchase from a nut and bolt supplier who services the refinery industries.
G Evans

The studs in my manifold had been drilled out at some point, but not in the center. When I got it there was 3/8 hardware store (grade 2) threaded rod with nuts on both sides serving to hold the exhaust pipe on. Since I had 3/8ths grade 8 studs on hand and heli-coils as well, I tried the heli-coil tap and it was cutting pretty good threads in the somewhat oval holes. It took the studs quite well so that was the fix. The alternative was to drill out for 12mm or 7/16th studs. The correct police might not agree with fractional inch hardware on the metric engine, but hey, it's an exhaust pipe. I also had the correct size bronze nuts on hand.

JE Carroll

Well, I ended up with a replacement exhaust manifold - thanks Dan Craig! :)
New gaskets, some high temp gasket sealant on the exhaust pipe flange, reassembled, she started right up and ran well.
All's well that ends well...

Geoffrey M Baker

Hang in there, Geoff. Drive the ole girl and celebrate your victory. Dan
Dan Craig

Geoff,

What did you run up against?

Jim
JE Carroll

This thread was discussed between 08/05/2014 and 20/05/2014

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