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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Simmonds (aero) nuts

I thought it would be good to have 'on the record' a list of all the Simmonds nuts that were used on the MG TF (Were any used on the TD?). Simmonds nuts are an early version of the nylon ring self-locking nut common today.

Simmonds nuts are referred to in "The MG Workshop Manual" by W.E. Blower on pages 531 and 575 where they are used to hold the side panels in place against the bulkhead and radiator on the TF. Below are some pictures of mine on my 1500 that I believe are undisturbed, but I cant be certain that they were not phased-in during TF production.

Cheers,
Matthew.

First photo shows a Simmonds nut holding the rear side panel. Nut-up seems to be the correct orientation going by other unrestored TF's.

M Magilton

Here is one on my oil pipe union.

M Magilton

Eight more small ones are used to hold the bonnet side catches.

M Magilton

Four more are used on the spare wheel mount and tank straps.

M Magilton

Eight more are used on the top bonnet catches (cant seem to capture those on camera).

Four more are used on the horn mounts.

Have I missed any?

Cheers,
Matthew.

M Magilton

Matt.,
I have all the Simmonds Nuts you have depicted
on my rebuilt TF1250. In the previous,related Thread,I had forgotten to mention the eight(8)
Simmonds Nuts affixing the bonnet locks to the side engine panels you have now raised.

The TF1500 will receive the same treatment
with the Simmonds Nuts.

I am wondering if the drive shaft to flanges
originally had bolts and Simmonds type Nuts
(8). Quite a few TFs I have owned over the years had these consistently in place.The nuts used were slightly different in that they had a 'squarer'looking top section compared to the more rounded Simmonds Nuts we have already discussed.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

I agree with all of these locations. Unfortunately my car is missing quite a few. Can they be purchased anywhere?
Max Irvine

"Can they be purchased anywhere?"

Yes, If all else fails, British Tools and Fasteners in the US carries them in BFS sizes http://www.britishfasteners.com/
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Hi David D.,

Although I think I have enough of the original Simmonds Nuts,your heads up for others re the British Fastener Co. is fantastic.
These have been very hard to get items in the past.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

I have two tatty but original TFs in the shop right now, both with these nuts on the undisturbed drive-shaft flanges.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom,

Thankyou for checking the Drive SHaft to Flange bolts on the original looking TFs.

I am wondering if on the same TFs in your shop
the Simmonds nuts(4) are evident for both the rear (Bulkhead Bracket) and front(to Radiator Bracket) for affixing the side engine panels?

These of course are perhaps more likely to have been previously tampered with or altered
with the side engine panel being removed for work on the engine,leaky core plugs,replacing the exhaust manfold gaskets and so on.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Matthew M.,

I can definately see a spring washer under the head of the Simmonds Nut re the side engine panel? The flat washer also looks like it has one flat side?

The photo of the bonnet catch lock Simmonds Nut may have a split washer under the head or is it just a flat washer?

Both seem unusual in lieu of the Simmonds-Aero Nut locking function.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Moss is using them (as improved replacements) on the stearing box coupler bolts on the MG-TD.
These are the sholder bolts at the end of the steering column
JA Benjamin

Good gay all:
Attn: Mr. Magilton:

Re: Simmonds Nuts and the TD.

The only two I can recall, and I am sure there may be others as I am not that knowledgeable, were used to affix the L and R hand steering levers.

They are described as being: thin, 1/2" BSF and the only Part # I can find is 500109.

They are noted on Pages # A3 of both the June, 1950 Parts List, Issue 1, and June, 1958 Parts Service List # AKD 834 for the TD.

(Wikipedia has a history of Sir Oliver Edwin Simmonds, a British aeronautical pioneer, who adopted the use of a stop nut, manufactured by the Elastic Stop Nut Corporation of Cleveland, Ohio, in aircraft construction and I reckon that became known as the Simmonds Nut ?)

Right then; so much for my intervention !
Cheers all:
Jack Emdall. TC6768/TD3191, Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia, Canada
kernow

bonnet catch pic.

J K Barter

Simmonds flange nuts pic.

J K Barter

Thought this might be of interest:
Cheers,

Nick (TD3232)

Nick Herwegh

Hi,

Thanks to Matthew and all other contributors on this interesting early use of locking nuts, developed as far as I know from the aviation industry. I have many of the nuts on the TF, but now see that I am missing some! I think the propshaft ones can stay as nylocks, but it would be nice to get them for the more visible locations'

To Nick from the Netherlands, assuming I've got the right site, the Philidas building is still there in Ferrybridge and has been used in the past for bearing manufacturing, but is currently a distribution depot. I go past it two or three times a week - it's about 6 miles from my home. Ferrybridge was originally a major stage coach stop on the Great North Road from London to York - Scotaland etc. There is little remaining of those times, and the main road now by-passes the village, but there is a large coal fired power station, complete with large cooling towers !

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Good day again:

Butting in once more, there is also a Wikipedia entry on Philidas Ltd.

Most recently sold, after a few change of ownership over the years, to a Haden MacLellan (2000). The firm is still producing the items at a reported, as of 2005, 110 million fasteners per annum.

I'll now pack it in.
Cheers again:
Jack Emdall
kernow

I thought the profile on the flange nuts looked a bit different from the other Simmonds nuts- maybe we need a new thread for Philidas nuts! Or go back to calling them all aero-nuts.
JB
J K Barter

Thanks for sharing this vintage advertisement Nick.

Very true JB. Amazing how these things come up and how valuable they are to gain a better understanding how these car were built and the different suppliers the Factory used. "Never say, 'never'" on how things were done with these cars.


Frank Cronin

Hi All,

Although not exactly the Simmonds-Aero nut,
there are self locking nuts on the rear axle area on TFs(and probably TDs) ie.where the backpates are bolted to the axle tube flanges.

Cheers
Rob Granhtam
Rob Grantham

Rob, I guess the spring washer was a belt-and-braces approach?

JK, good photo!

Nick, that add is a great find!

Matthew.
M Magilton

Hi all,

I've now found out that in the early 60s Philidas moved west a mile or so from Ferrybridge to Monkhill Lane, Pontefract, to a new purpose built factory, which is still there and still producing. They have their own website and although most of their production appears to be metric they do appear to make AF and BSF to order. I will see if small nos. of nuts can be bought locally, the old fashioned way, ie not through the internet!

It appears to me that the correct name for the metal locking nut is the Philidas, the Simmonds term mainly relating to fibre and nylon insert types. From the advert produced by Nick Herwegh it appears that the 'Turret Self Locking Nut' was used on our cars, ie the slots above each other, and still available. The more common metal locking nut produced today is thinner with the slots opposite each other.

Sorry if this is boring to many readers, but what surprises me is that although only a few miles away from home I was not aware of the existence of the Philidas factory until this thread was started.

Incidentally Monkhill Lane goes south into Pontefract, towards the site of a medieval monastic site (hence the name), and the still partially existing castle, which played an important part in english history. Going north under the M62 motorway is the well named 'Spittal Hardwick Lane', presumable an historic reference to an ancient hospital site.

Thats all for now,

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Seems we all go nuts about some nuts ;^)
I'll get my anorak now....!

Nick (TD3232)
Nick Herwegh

I inspected the eight lock nuts on the flanges to the drive shaft and they have the same horizontal slice cuts (lack of a better term to describe) on the top of the nut just like the picture in the Philidas advertisement Nick has shared with us. The bolt had NEWTON in raised letters. I recognize this on other bolts used on the car. The Simmond nut and Philidas nut is shaped a little differently and in locking design as evident in the pictures.

Not sure where else where they are on the car but I will take notice where else they may be when assembling the car.

I didn't take a picture but they are definitely Philidas.

Frank
Frank Cronin

Hi Frank et al,

The nuts you are describing are Philidas Turret type as shown in Nick's advert. The advantage over fibre or nylock type Simmonds nuts is that they can be used more than once, as in your case ! Newton bolts were one of the most common manufacturers used by MG, and it is likey that these are also original to your car.

I think we should start using the Philidas term for our MG locking nuts, and thank Nick from the Netherlands for the advert that clarified this issue.

PS - the Pontefract/Ferrybridge 'history' is for general background interest only - you don't need to put an anorak on !

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

There is one more simmonds nut that I don't think has been mentioned and that is the one on the centre attachment of the spare wheel holder.
So to recap:-
4 on the fixed bonnet sides
8 for the bonnet release buttons
8 for the bonnet catches
4 for the horn mountings
1 for the oil pipe union
2 for the petrol tank straps
2 for the spare wheel mounting bracket outer holes
1 for the spare wheel centre mounting hole
Max Irvine

Hi Max,

Neat summary of the TF Simmonds Nuts.

I had actually mentioned the spare wheel carrier centre nut in the previous thread
which digressed to the Simmonds Nuts theme.

Well spotted!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

There may be another location. Again, I'm ignorant about TFs, but the nut on the bolt securing the brake backing plate to the rear axle on TDs is a locking nut, OEM Part #ALN306N, or LNN206. It's described as (Nut, 3/8 B.S.F. (Phillidas)). Maybe also on TFs? Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud,
Rob Grantham mentioned these on the TF a little earlier in this thread so it appears TD's and TF's are common in this area.
Max Irvine

Anyone notice two Simmonds nuts on tailpipe hanger?
JB

J K Barter

Are any special locking nuts used to hold the lower A-arm frame to the chassis?
Thanks.
Jud
J K Chapin

Jud, castellated nuts I think.

JB, Well spotted! Does it have the same two slots? Mine has lost those.


Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew,
Good question- I checked and it has 4 notches in the top and I don't see the horizontal slot- so maybe a different maker.
JB
J K Barter

Can you get a shot of the four notches?

Matthew.
M Magilton

This thread was discussed between 03/11/2013 and 12/11/2013

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