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MG TD TF 1500 - Speedometer/odometer help needed

I had Declan construct a speedometer correction gearbox for me. It's a work of art. My readings have been too high since I installed the 4.3 gears. Periodically I've been resetting the odometer to keep the readings closer to actual. The new gearbox from Declan will keep things right where they should be once I make the final correction.

I opened up the speedometer and moved the odometer wheels to the setting that I think is correct, 46171. Reinstalled it and went for a test spin. The speedometer needle has never been so steady or so accurate. The problem is that the main odometer is running 10 times faster than it should be. The trip odometer is fine. It shows that I covered 6.8 miles. However the main odometer says I went 68 miles!

HelP!! Anybody out there have an idea of how I did that?
Any Jaeger help info available? TIA. Bud

Bud Krueger

In my computer's 'TechStuff' folder I found a file, "Repairing Jaeger & Smiths Speedometers". Will it help? I dunno. Bud
Bud Krueger

Nope. It's for Triumph speedometers from early 60's on. Keep hunting.
Bud Krueger

Bud - The "Repairing Jaeger & Smiths Speedometers" should be the same for the MG odometer (other than gearing). It sounds very much like you have improper gearing in your main odometer. I don't know if The instrument repair shops like APT http://www.gaugeguys.com/ or Nisonger
http://www.nisonger.com/ will give you advice over phone or e-mail, but it would be worth a shot. Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Thanks Dave. There are a significant number of differences between the construction of the 50's instruments and the early 60's. In my case it's something that I did in resetting the wheels that caused the problem. I think that I just spotted a copper spring that I may have bent. I've reshaped it and am about to reassemble it. Frustrating!! Bud
Bud Krueger

Nope. Found a place ~30 miles from home that does Jaeger stuff.
Bud Krueger

My speedo/odometer was reading incorrectly after I had fitted a 5 spped box. I sent the head unit to Richfield's in Nottingham (as recommended by HiGear). I had to push the car forwards so the rear wheels turned 8 times and count the number of revolutions the cable made. They returned the unit after two weeks and it looked brand new. I have tested it against an iPhone Sat Nav app and when I am travelling at 30 mph the speedometer reads 31. The cost of refurbishment and changing the internal gears was about £50.


Jan T
J Targosz

Bud,

The problem may be that you have the wheel for 10x miles spinning free, without the corresponding stop keeping it steady. If so, when the wheel for units moves, it draws the wheel for 10x at the same time.

The cited manual for speedometers is fully applicable to the TD series speedos, at least as far a general operation and layout. Details of construction may vary even among contemporary speedos.

Jesús
J Benajes

Jesus, I reckon you're onto it
Bud, When you refitted the odometer barrel to the speedo the seperator/locating blade next to the tens can't be locating on the retaining bar properly
willy
William Revit

Over the past 20, or so, years I have probably reset the odometer 3 or 4 times. I've never done any disassembling of the odometer section. I've been able to simply rotate the respective number wheels to obtain the reading that I needed. The barrel has stayed in situ.

Where I suspect the problem to be is from my effort to rotate the 10's dial. I had to press in on something under the dial to allow the dial to move. I suspect that I may have deformed one of the copper fingers that appear to put pressure on the dials.

Given a decent set of directions I'm generally willing to take on most any project. I have to disagree with Jesus on the similarity between this instrument and the early TR's. Since I did no disassembly to cause the problem I suspect that it can be remedied without disassembly. I'll try again after another cup of coffee. Bud
Bud Krueger

It looks as if I may have it fixed by playing around with the copper fingers. I just did some spinning with a drill and made the trip odometer spin around to just over 1.0 miles. The 1's digit main odometer turned from 1 to 2 when the trip odometer passed 0.9. Let me put it back into Lazarus and take a spin. (After the Monday chores are completed.) Thanks for your concerns folks. Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud,

From your description I guess that you somehow bent the spring-stop that keeps the 10x wheel from spinning.

Look at the attached photo of the interiors in a TR3A speedo to see what I mean (TD speedo is almsot identical - see next post).
You will see two springs badly bent, but in the case you describe, the second from the right should be bent towards the bottom. The difficult side is that they are below the wheels drum, towards the center of the speedo.

If this is the culprit, probably bending it again towards the wheel rim will solve the problem.

Jesús



J Benajes

As a side question, and as far as how similar the MG T-series and Triumph TR speedos are, I can ensure that the principle and the main mechanism you find there are very similar (not to say identical).

See attached photo comparing both. However, it is true that the speedometer of the early TD (chronometric motion) are probably different.

Jesús

J Benajes

Good job Bud! Glad you are getting around so well also. George
George Butz

Not quite!! Took a spin. About 4 miles on the trip odometer shows up as about 16 on the main odometer.

Jesus, I think that you're right on the cause of the problem. The TR3A and TD units that you show do look very similar. They just don't match up with the images in the manual. I fear that attempts to disassemble the unit will only cause more (expensive) grief. I'll take it to the pros on Wednesday http://masrepair.com/repair-services/cluster-speedometer-repair/

George, they're located a few miles from Dr. Erens. I'm scheduled to meet with him on Wednesday for a 2 month checkup. Bud
Bud Krueger

Whoops!! Called 'the experts'. They won't touch anything that old, period! Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and dig in. At least I had a video for the first time I dug into a gearbox. And, I had Lawrie Alexander's video for SU's. But, there's one thing that I didn't have before that should give me super confidence this time -- Jesus thinks that I can do it. (Sorry Jesús, I just couldn't resist). Bud
Bud Krueger

Over the years I've had good results in sending my instruments to Nissonger who have been the Smiths and Jaeger agents in the USA for more than a half century. They have done a good job rebuilding my TD speedo and two Morris Minor speedos and did a calibration so they would read correctly with the 4.55 gears I fit to my TD. Comparing to a GPS they are all dead accurate. They're on Long Island, NY.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Bud,

Indeed, Jesus (me – the Other I don’t know) thinks you can do it…. Perhaps with some help.

I started without any special knowledge and using this manual I have already tweaked several speedos (with good results – even swapping gears to change from mph to kph and calibrating the neddle speed indication). If I could, you can too. I can offer my assistance from the distance. If we lived closer to each other, you could send the speedo to me and I would give a try.

Anyway, I have some additional information and many photos than can be useful in this attempt, that I would of course share with you. It is true that the described mechanisms are not identical as in our TDs, but the main ideas are exactly the same.

Tell me if you need some help.

Jesus
J Benajes

Sorry, Jesús, but, I tried. Could not find the way to expose the copper fingers below the numbers. Put it back together and it is now on its way to John Wolf & Co. in Ohio. I just hope that's back before the 4th of July. Not sure what parade I'll have Lazarus in, but I'd hate to have an "Out for Service" sign in the speedometer hole. Thanks for all the info. Bud
Bud Krueger

I hope you will get the speeedo back in due time for the parade, Bud.

Best regards.

Jesús
J Benajes

Hello everyone, thanks to this topic and the help of my friends (David, Douglas and Guy), I was able to determine the problem with my meter. You can see that the spring blade of the end roller is torn off! Unbelievable!
First of all, I have to explain that I exchanged the master parts of my mileage meter with David's meter which was in kms. I live in France and David in Scotland which will be much more convenient for both of us.
We exchanged the frame, the two gears, the two notched wheels and the face of the meter. Of course, I took many notes and pictures. The reassembly went well, impeccable (at least I thought so). The road tests also went well, as well as the speed which is about 5% less, which will avoid me some fines.
Recently, during a ride, I noticed something strange! I had the impression while visualizing the figures of the odometer that I was driving at the speed of light?
The first roll of numbers indicated a mileage 10x more important and the day counter was working perfectly.
When I disassembled it, I noticed that the spring blade of the end roller was torn off! But where does it come from? Especially since it's very difficult to see with the notch of the disc hidden behind the frame.
My friends helped me by finding my problem, thanks to them; When reassembling, I had to turn over the end disc and the notch tore off the flat spring blade.
The second picture clearly explains what not to do and I hope my little contribution will be useful to other MG enthusiasts.
Thierry the Ardéchois from the South of France





t Thierry

Ouch! I'm sorry to see this thread resurface. If anyone is thinking of using that vendor in Ohio I'd suggest that you contact me first. Arrogance has resulted in my now having a useless Declan correction gearbox and an expensive speedometer whose only accuracy is the needle pointer.
FYI, I did have the speedometer back in time for the 2017 July 4th parade. This year, Lazarus will be driving in two Fourth of July parades, one on July 3rd and the other on July 5th. Bud
Bud Krueger

Hello Bud,

When your main odometer was reading 10 times your trip odometer you should have left it alone and just painted a properly positioned decimal point on the face of the speedometer.

Sorry, I know it's inappropriate but I couldn't resist.

Mort
Mort Resnicoff

Ah, Mort, you are the creative one. Never thought of that. Was a very frustrating experience. Bud
Bud Krueger

Hugh Pete was restoring them up in Canada. He is an owner. He rebuilt mine and Bill Chassers.

Jenntoo@shaw.ca
Bruce Cunha

I didn't know that Hugh (PITE) was doing that. Maybe I'll check that out with him later this year when I finish my paint project. Thanks, Bud
Bud Krueger

BTW, Nissonger is in Mamaroneck, NY which is in Westchester County not on Long Island. If that makes any difference.

Jim
James Neel

For all those who are looking for a specialist in Germany:

Ka-Ja Tachodienst
Industriestr. 4
D-91077 Neunkirchen a.Brand
+49(0)9134 993368

did good jobs for mechanical instruments and cables

But the waiting list is 3 month.
W_Mueller

Thanks for the spelling correction Bud. I did not catch the error.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce, it was the email address that jumped up. Couldn't guess at how many times I've entered that one over the last bunch of years. Hugh is a fascinating person. Bud
Bud Krueger

This thread was discussed between 11/06/2017 and 13/06/2021

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