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MG TD TF 1500 - Still No Oil Pressure On Rebuilt XPAG

Greetings Everyone,
This is in reference to my post on 19 December 2018. Thank you to everyone who tried to help. Unfortunately, nothing so far, has helped solve my issue. Here is what I've done:
- I changed the oil pipe around so the double banjo fitting is
on the lower block. The gauge is attached here.
- I primed the oil pump.
- I made sure the oil pipe between the banjo bolts was clear.
- I put a little air pressure to the gauge to see if the needle
moved, it did.
- I plugged the breather pipe and pressured the sump(had to
try it)
- I cranked engine, with ignition off, for 30 seconds after
each check point, still no pressure.
Once again, any ideas or insights would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to go any further on the build until this problem is solved and I can start the engine.

Tom

T Scileppi

HiHO. cHRISTMAS AND new yearS gREETINGS
FROM NORWAY. tAKE OFF THE VALVE COWER AND SEE IF OIL IS COMMING TO THE VALVES hven cranking.
Thoralf. NORWAY TD 4490
Thoralf Sorensen (TD4490)

Tom

you followed all the advices. One thing I can imagine is a leak between oil pump and the sump. The other thing is a wrong installed gasket which covers the oil channel.

W_Mueller

Tom, just for the heck of it, look and see if the rotor is turning while you're cranking the engine. Bud
Bud Krueger

Tom, is yours a late block with the horizontal filter? Bud
Bud Krueger

One thing I did when I did my engine many years ago was prime the oil pipe to the gauge just loosened at the gauge and wait till sum oil seeps out and tighten.
Air will compress, Oil won't

IF you have the late oil filter (horizontal) Try to prime the pump even pack the pump gears with vasoline to get the suction working. I have not seen a sump gasket for some time - do both sides have the hole for the oil passthrough? Or can you get the wrong side fitted that would block the path to the pump?
just clutching at straws here.

Rod


Rod Jones

When I couldn't get any oil pressure on my 51, I removed the by pass spring and ball, then packed the cavity with as much Vaseline as I could, put the ball and spring back, then removed the spark plugs and spun the engine with the starter. Pressure came up.
Gary
g parker

Find a spot to get oil into the pressure side of the system. Where may depend on horizontal or vertical filter. If vertical filter, you can take off the top pump banjo and put the oil in there. You can use a pump oil can or whatever, fill it up, then roll the engine backwards to suck the oil in. Repeat several times. To do this, put car in 4th, jack up a rear wheel or just roll the car backwards. With the other filter, not sure about which plug on pump to use. You can rig up plumbing with either type and use a cheap garden sprayer to inject oil anywhere into the pressure side of the system, then turn backwards, etc. and then give it a try. George
George Butz III

My friend had a similar problem with his TF that had the motor rebuilt by a 'mechanic'. We worked out it was not sucking up from the sump, so off with the sump only to find a small plug missing on the side of the sump where the inside oil strainer is attached. It can have a screw head or bolt, not all sumps have it. Don

Donald J Walker

My oil filter is horizontal. This engine is a later model,1953. When I went to prime the oil pump, I noticed it had been filled with what I thought looked like grease, vaseline? Tomorrow I will check to see if the rotor turns when cranking. I will eventually get to the sump gasket. The engine was rebuilt in 1998, not by me. It had not been in the car until I put it in a year ago. The paper work, parts list, and starting instructions all seem legit. But who knows? I'll keep trying and again, thank you all.

Tom
T Scileppi

I hope your engine was rebuilt by someone with more common sense than the one who rebuilt the engine on TF2071 (me). After trying all the tricks mentioned on the forums to get some oil pressure I eventually took the pump off again (not too bad on a bare chassis) and found I had missed punching one of the holes in the gasket!
Pressure came after pumping the galleries full of oil and filling the pump body with Vaseline.
I know this qualifies me for plonker of the week but if it helps I can live with the shame.
Chris


C I Twidle

Two cars in the area had same problem: one the sump gasket was flipped side to side (no oil hole), the other had a massive blob of Permatex blocking the sump to block hole. George
George Butz III

This is the issue if the sump gasket is on the wrong side. It will effectively block the oil passageway through the sump wall to the pump.

Rod Jones

You can also do this:

Pull the plugs, jack up the left rear wheel and shift to 4th. Remover the large bolt at the top of the pump and while turning the wheel backwards, pour oil into the pump.

This reverses the pump allowing oil to be taken in at the high pressure side, priming it.

Worked for me on my '53.
MAndrus

Hello all,
Today I took the valve cover off and cranked the engine. There was no sign of oil moving. I noticed that oil put down the priming opening slowly goes down, to the sump? Or filter? Bud, I did take the dist. cap off and the rotor does turn when cranking the engine over.
Several people have suggested improper placement of a gasket maybe blocking an oil passage way. Rod, you sent a very helpful view of the sump gasket. All the times I've viewed a picture of that gasket, I never took note of the opening for oil passage. Also there's the gasket on the oil pump itself. I'm not sure which gasket to check first. I also put the car in 4th gear and rotated the rear tire backward while putting oil in the priming opening. This had no effect either.
T Scileppi

I have not tried this on a later pump, but I use a different method of priming on my early pumps. It should show if there is a problem on the supply side. I move the oil delivery pipe aside (on top of the pump). Then I use a plastic tube to SUCK oil from the sump, through the pipes and pump, until it appears in the tube. I then quickly re-attach the top pipe. It takes a lot of sucking! It might not be possible if the pump is packed with Vaseline unless you use a strong vacuum pump to do the sucking. There should be an equivalent hole on later cars if the oil filter is removed and the flat round plate is removed. Although it would be difficult to reassemble quickly, it might show if there is a problem on the supply side.

Bob
R L Schapel

Tom, I believe there is a third gasket to consider. It’s on the inside of the sump where the pipe from the strainer feeds to the suction side of the pump. If this is not airtight you can’t draw oil into the pump even if it is full of Vaseline. Hopefully you will crack this problem before you have to take the sump off to check this and the hole that Rod mentioned.
Keep at it, we have all been in similar spots, you just have to enjoy the ride.......
C I Twidle

Above could be problem- make sure bolts snug on outside of the sump at pickup- either two or four depending. These tighten and hold the pickup to the inside of the sump. They are small so don't snap off. George
George Butz III

Have you checked that the bypass vale is installed and put in correctly (#22)? I have vertical filters so don't know if the horizontal filter bypass valve can be installed the wrong way or not.

Tim

Timothy Burchfield

Make sure there is no gasket between the pump top and body. Top is fitted without gasket, only gasket is pump body to engine block. Don't know if this would prevent all flow, but would make the pump less efficient.
Brian
ZBMan

Remove the priming plug on the pump and spin up till oil appears (I presume the plugs are out).
Is it an early or late block? I have seen a late pump fitted on an early block without removing the filter bypass valve which compromised the oil pressure.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I second C.I. Twidle’s idea.
Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Take the filter off and turn the engine over to make sure oil is going to the filter in the right direction. Spin on filters have back flow rubbers. Good luck, Tom
tom scott

I know this doesn’t help you at the moment, but I think everyone has hit on the suspect areas to check. All my engines have the remote oil filters (early design) so I can’t add much here. I will say that I do consider all non runners as cores. Rebuilt or not, I will take them apart to inspect them prior to initial start ups. I don’t trust any one else’s work especially when it comes to running gear overhauls that are untested. When I bought my first TD ( 4834) the engine was on a stand and looked fresh by outward appearances and was purported to be rebuilt When I took it apart for inspection the center cam bearing was missing, and cam timing was not correct along with other lesser issues. Had I attempted to start it as built it would have been a disaster very quickly.

With that being said ... It may be time to pull the engine back out and put it in a stand to do a thorough inspection. Relating to the oiling system Check the pick up screen for debris and clean thoroughly . Check the oil pick up tube for cracks including the pickup tube to pan flange insure the pick up gasket is sealed to the pan using a very thin layer of your preferred sealant. Care must be taken so that no sealant excess gets into the oil pan gallery. Make sure the gallery through the pan is clear of debris. Make sure the pan to block gasket is oriented correctly and that when sealer is applied sparingly at the oil orifice that no excess sealant blocks the oil hole to the block. Make sure that no debris is in the block to the pump gallery. Remove the pump. Remove and Inspect the bypass assembly in the block if the engine has the remote filter (early) and replace if worn. If using the later oil pump with integrated oil filter this item must not be present in the block. Disassemble the oil pump. Pull the gears and make sure they are in good condition and that they spin freely in the case. Check your tolerances when installed that they are within spec. Prior to final pump assembly pack the pump with vasoline. If the cover plate is worn have it resurfaced so the it is smooth. This can be done using a flat surface, progressively finer grits of wet and dry sand paper and a thin oil as a lubricant. When reinstalling the pump insure the base gasket is correctly oriented. Again, use sealant sparingly. (I use a dab of sealant on the cover plate bolt threads and on the flat washers as well). No sealant on the cover plate to pump housing.

While the engine is still on the stand put three qts of oil in the pan. Put two qts in a cheap garden pump sprayer and clamp the hose to the oil pressure gauge port remove the cap on the oil pump and pressurize the oil system with the pump sprayer. When oil begins to come through the pump cap hole, reinstall the cap and continue pressurize the system until the oil is gone from the sprayer. This should be sufficient to fully prime the system and fill the filter as well. Remove the pump sprayer and spin the engine over (by hand or on the starter) with the spark plugs removed. Oil should be expressed at the port when the engine spins over. Don’t forget to correct the oil level in the pan before starting.

Good luck

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

I used my mini(mity) vac and attached it where the oil gauge attaches. Then I sucked the oil into the system. I did this before I cranked it and the oil was now in the chambers and ready to go.
Erik
TD-20596
Erik Gebhardt

This thread was discussed between 27/12/2018 and 10/01/2019

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