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MG TD TF 1500 - TD 2 Bow Side Curtain Pin Angle

I'm presently making 3 pairs of 2 bow front side curtain frames, one pair for myself, one for a mate & the third for sale to recoup material costs. I'm using the mate's pair of badly rusted original frames as a template however the RMS pin at the end of the flat bar is bent at markedly different angles on each frame. As I'm about to weld them up I need to know the correct angle that the pin is to the bar. Can someone with an original frame (NOT one from Moss) give me the answer in degrees please? Probably easiest to provide the angle from the long edge of the flat bar to the longitudinal axis of the pin. TYIA. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
I would measure my originals, but they have been subjected to many years of abuse and bending.
However, it would seem to me that if you were to place a rod into the pin socket, you could measure the angle from that to the vertical side of the windscreen. I recognize that they are a way away from each other, but placing a straight edge along the windscreen (to extend that plane toward the rod) could make the job easier.
Lew3

I agree, mine were purchased used and are definitely not a template to go by. Lew's method seems more accurate...
Geoffrey M Baker

Is this what you want?
I am off to the Dr's for a Lin job on my knees. If it's ok I can measure it later today.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Should have been "A Lube Job" above.

It looks Like 15 degrees, give or take 1 degree.
Reference as in the attached picture.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

I'd guess that even if you made them perfectly to the original spec they won't 'fit' as the door and hood etc are all moving targets.

Is there a way to make them easier to fettle when fitting? Rather than a welded peg some sort of movable pin that can then be locked in place. Something like a ball joint ?

:-)

Dave
D Moore

Dave: This is why the socket is not centered. You have to twist it to the position that best fits your side curtains.
Christopher Couper

Thanks gentlemen. Lew as I'm making three pairs I'd like to match the original ex factory effort. The other issue is my passenger door is still a work in progress though I could just work off the driver's door using your method, as that side of the car appears to be original.
Jim B that is exactly what I needed! Thanks a bunch. The last problem is finding the best method to create the circular recess at the base of the front attachment point. A Forstener bit would be ideal but as I don't have one & I'm too mean to buy one just for this job, I'll probably have to mess about with my die grinder, unless somebody has a better idea? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The spot face or counter bore is 1" in diameter and 3/32" deep.

If I wee doing it I would use an end mill, but I probably have one.

In your case I would first be sure it is well secured on the table of a drill press. Set the stroke on the arbor so you get the depth you need. If the tool grabs you can easily go through the 3/16 material.

I would either purchase a straight router bit 1" in diameter, (about $15 in the us) or find an old 1" drill bit, (Even I dont have one of them, I stop at 3/4") and then grind the end ALMOST flat. I would next relieve the back of the flutes. I might drill a center hole just smaller than the slot first, so the tool cuts on the flutes and not on the center.

Be sure to do this before making the slots. The tool will want to grab on the slot and tare the work out of the vise and through it across the room.

BTDT.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim I just purchased a second hand 1" end mill with a Morse 2 taper for use in my drill press. I will have to predrill the centre first though. Seemed a good buy at $15 & it does drill on centre. (I got it from Moyles for you Sydney siders). Any suggestions on speed & lubricant? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I have done a little milling on the DP. Its not all that stiff. I would go at the slowest speed. Feed as slow as you can. I think I would set a stop so that the cut depth was only 0.010" or less, (about 1/4 mm) then increase the depth in increments of 0.010". DP's do not have nice controlled feeds and this will stop the end mill from grabbing.
Yes I would clear out the center of the step. Many end mills are not "center cutting" so drilling through first is safer.

I would clamp a vise in the DP. center the work under the chuck. Mark the table WRT the post. (I suspect you will need to change alignment to install the end mill. A couple of pieces of tape with a THIN line scribed in them should work) Drill through with several size drills. Then start with the end mill.

That was a good price for a 1" end mill.

I use sulfonated threading oil to cut with. Its usually available in the big box or hardware (iron mongers) or pluming stores. It smells bad but works good.

Jim B
JA Benjamin

Thanks for the tips Jim. The chuck has been removed & the MT2 mill fitted. I'll stick a bucket under the vise table to catch the oil & rig up some kind of feed. I'll post a couple of pics later of the setup & of the 2 welding jigs I made for the frames. What's BTDT & WRT? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

BTDT. Been There Done That

WRT. With Respect To.

The last used in math.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

WRT the oil I have arranged a free 60 ml sample coming of a non toxic MQL (minimum quantity lubricant) from Unist which uses just 10ml per 1 hour of cutting. I'll let you know how it performs. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Further examination of the pin on the driver's side shows two angles. The 15 degrees that Jim has quantified & a further offset of about 15 degrees towards the inside of the car. I've placed it in position & it seems to be correct as the forward flat bar sits nicely against the top rail of the door at its mounting point, with the bottom rail of the side curtain frame parallel to the floor. The windscreen is yet to be fitted so I can't check the fit there. This original 2 bow frame is not from my car but does seem to fit with the pin angled as Jim describes & with it also angled to the interior. Further comment appreciated. MQL has arrived but yet to be tested. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 12/10/2015 and 20/10/2015

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