MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TD transmission fork end.

In the archive there was a discussion about the transmission fork end bolt and the bushing on it.

The post said there is a cupped washer that sets upside down against the rubber bushing.

The TD workshop manual does not have a cupped washer there. (Figure F4)


Is this another early vs later TD part change?

Bruce Cunha

Bruce -

I'm not a TD expert, but I feel that the cup washer was used on the gearbox mounts for TDs and for TFs. You need to do some Sherlock Holmes detective work to find the information for TDs.

You can't find the cup washer because the artists and writers of the TD Workshop Manual and the TD Service Parts list made a mistake when they drew and described the washer. The cup washer for the gearbox mount is the same as the cup washers that are on the engine control bracket, MG part #ACA5379. That totally confused the TD artists and writers. They gave both parts the same name "Cup-link". They even listed the parts for the TD engine control bracket incorrectly and labeled them incorrectly on the Plate. Plate G and page F.2 in the TD Workshop Manual.

The error was corrected in the TF Service Parts List (Plate G, and page F.2). The cup washer continues to have the same MG part #ACA5379 as the washer in the TD Service Parts List. But they left the same (wrong) diagram and (wrong) description in the TD/TF Workshop Manual.

I have attached a PDF of Plate G in the TF Service Parts List. You can see that the washer is cupped.

Page F.2 in the TF Service Parts List describes the cup washer for the engine control bracket and for cup washer for the gearbox mount with the same MG part #ACA5379, which is correct. But they have different names for the parts: "Cup-control link" for the engine control bracket; and "Washer" for the gearbox mount.

That's why it's confusing!

I have attached a photo of my TF7211 gearbox mount.

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211


LM Cook

Well, That's interesting. I have a genuine BMC workshop manual - part no.AKD 580 A and plate F4 clearly shows the bush(4), washer(6) and nut and lists the washer in the descriptor
willy




William Revit

Here is the picture of the setup from TD23834.



Christopher Couper

William

But that diagram and description don't answer Bruce's question about the washer being cupped. The description in the workshop manuals is just "Washer", and you can't tell if the "Washer" is flat or cupped in the diagram.

The photo below is a close up of all Workshop Manuals and the TD/TF Service Parts List AKD804 by BMC.

Your WSM diagram was originally in TD Service Parts List AKD834, and also printed in the three TD and TF Workshop Manuals that I have.
That description was also used in all of my Workshop Manuals
TD Workshop Manual (publisher and publication number unknown), page F.4
TD/TF Workshop Manual by BMC AKD580A, page F.4
TD/TF Workshop Manual by Nuffield Exports Limited AKD580A page F.4

TF Service Parts List (Second Issue) AKD804 by BMC Plate G, and Page F.2 is the only manual that I have that shows and describes the cupped washer.

Now, it gets even more screwy ...
TF Service Parts List by Nuffield Exporters Limited dated May 1954 (no publication number) that is only for XPAG has the same descriptions as AKD804 described in my previous post, but the part numbers are different. The part number in the Nuffield Parts List for the cup washer is "S44/203." The part number in the BMC Parts List is "ACA5379." Plate G was removed and lost by a previous owner, so I don't know about the diagram.

I still stand by my belief that the artists and writers made a mistake in the TD Service Parts List and the mistake was duplicated in all TD and TF Workshop Manuals.

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211


LM Cook

Lonnie yes/no If you have a good look at the pic it shows the orientation of the cup, and it'd be common sense not to face the sharp edge of the cup towards the rubber anyway--
Cheers
willy

William Revit

Yes Will, but I was of the understanding that a cup washer was used to 'capture' or enclose the adjacent rubber washer to stop the rubber creeping when squeezed under pressure.
cheers,
David
David Padgett

But why a cupped washer placed upside down is the issue I am having? If you wanted to keep the bushing from squeezing out, having the dish going up would make sense. IMHO, there is no difference in the compression of the rubber bushing with an upside down cupped washer and a flat washer.

I did note that the bottom of the transmission mount where the fork bolt goes through is tapered. A similar taper to the edge of the upside down dished washer. But with the rubber bushing on the bolt, the dish washer does not sink into that concave area.
Bruce Cunha

I don’t understand why the washer is cupped vs. flat. But since it is cupped, the cup must face away from the mount. Otherwise it might contact the mount as the nut is tightened, thus negating the cushioning effect of the rebound rubber. The correct orientation is shown in the TF Service Parts List.

The part number in the TD and TF Service Parts List is for a cupped washer.

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211
LM Cook

I also wonder why the mount has a rounded concave depression, but the rebound rubber that sits against it is flat. At first, I thought that the convex side of the rubber sat in the depression, but then the collar of the rubber would be crushed by the washer and nut. The collar must go through the hole in the mount to hold the rubber in position.

Maybe the rebound rubber had been cast incorrectly for the past 70 or so years.

Actually, I don’t understand why the washer is cupped vs. flat. (Maybe so that the edges wont cut the rubber??). But since it is cupped, the cup must face away from the mount. Otherwise it might contact the mount as the nut is tightened, thus negating the cushioning effect of the rebound rubber. The correct orientation is shown in the TF Service Parts List.

The part number in the TD and TF Service Parts List is for a cupped washer.

Between the apparent errors in the diagram, the shape of the rubber, and the reason for the washer being cupped vs. flat —- the entire mount seems to be a cluster xxxx.

And don’t me started on the poor/weak design of the eye that holds the fork!

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211
LM Cook

This thread was discussed between 04/11/2022 and 06/11/2022

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now