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MG TD TF 1500 - TD4834 timber help needed

It's been a hectic couple of months on my TD project. Chassis is back from powder coating and the reassembly has started in earnest. Body panels have been massaged and painted but have some flaws to work through yet. I'm more than just a little anal retentive about things. I've run into a big problem that I tried to short cut as I had already started prepping the tub for paint(in primer). My drivers side lower main frame and latch pillar were rotted and cracked. I've bought new timbers from Moss and Ebay neither have a good fit at the joint and I will have to shave material out of the joint to get them flush. Not a big problem. The problem has been to remove the old timbers trying not to completely dis-assemble the tub and start over. I pulled the nails out of the rocker panel and door jambs but didn't realize there are hidden screws under the sill. Is there a way to get access to these without complete disassembly or damage of/to the sheet metal? I'm at my wits end on this and hadn't planned on taking the tub apart any further than necessary. I've got the tub sitting on 6 jack stands and I'm afraid that the whole tub will collapse if I go any further. I now have to remove the scuttle as I fractured the wood the main frame timber screwed into which means that now my cowl is in jeopardy. none of the resource materials I have showed any of these hidden gems Any one out there done this before without going through all the motions??
W. A. Chasser Jr

The main Bearers that the A and B pillars are lap jointed into also have metal thread screws counter sunk into that pass through the wood and the angle iron.

There are also metal wood screws attaching the pillars to the Bearer.

The metal skinning has to come off to gain access to these fasteners.

the image is blurred but you can see the two screws in the bottom of the A pillar, and just the metal thread screw lower down.

Rod Brayshaw

Hello W.A.
Here is a pic. of the attachment points associated with the latch pillar and main rail. Some screws are from the back side hidden by the frame rail, one long screw extends from the top of the under door rail downward into the latch pillar.also there is a carriage bolt and a flat head machine screw as well.
Don't think you would want to try it without at least removing the front sheet-metal quarter-panel.
If your latch pillar joints to main rail are bad I think you need to seriously evaluate the rest of your tub wood as well JMO-FWIW.
Regards
Hiram

Hiram Kelley

Thanks Hiram and Rod for the pics and info. Every other wood member on the car is solid. I made all new plywood simply because of age and wear. The left (drivers side) lower rail showed signs of minor dry rot presumably from repeated moisture from entry and egress from that side. The Latch pillar was solid except for a stress crack through the wood screw holes that were added to stabilize the latch plate. I thought that while I had the tub that far disassembled I best make the upgrade. The metal sub frames were already removed for powder coating and I have since put the right side back in place. I was really hoping for better news regarding getting these two timbers out without taking the whole tub apart but seems like each piece is going to have something hidden under the sheet metal all the way up to the upper side rails in the rear quarter panels. I wish now I hade just left it alone and shot Elmers glue into the pillar and clamped it up leaving well enough alone. Unfortunately every member in the SVMGCC with T series cars seemed to have bought restored cars or have no experience in doing the woodwork for advice. I very discouraged at the moment...
W. A. Chasser Jr

Hang in there, W.A. Here's an image of 'the53' as I brought it home (using the towbar). Would you believe that, under that sheetmetal, there was only one piece of wood that I didn't have to replace (Fascia panel support). Bud


Bud Krueger

It now looks like this: (exterior/cosmetics/aesthetics by new owner). Bud
(The new wood doesn't show, but the car is as solid as they make them.)

Bud Krueger

Nice pics Bud, This car has been a labor of love to work on other than trying to get the wood out without doing damage. I'm trying to figure out a way to not have to unlead the cowl and completely strip the panels without haven't the body turn into a wad of scrap. All in all the tub is in fine shape sans this stupid lower timber and latch pillar. I'm also frantically y
trying to finish this project so my father might relive a part of his youth before it is too late. His health is fading and I really want to get this project running so as to give him a chance to drive a car he once had a passion for
W. A. Chasser Jr

Here's a thought. If you only need to repair that limited an area and your tub is off the frame and the angle iron tub frame has been removed then depending on if there is any wood left around the base of the latch pillar and same for lower main rail, attempt to rebuild the wood with these products, www.rotdoctor.com. What you are trying to do is what I was hoping to do on my tub but alas- like Bud my wood was to far gone so I did a total rebuild. I've used The Rot Doctor products with very good results on restoring wooden architectural features and to stabilize and rebuild the three pieces of tub wood I did reuse. Depending on if you have some original wood to work with you could try first stabilizing the rotted out areas then build it back up with their epoxy filler.This could work.
Can you post a picture of the problem area?

Regards
Hiram
Hiram Kelley

When I restored my TD, I thought much of the wood was in good shape. Whenever I removed a metal piece (bracket under the cowl, quarter panel, etc. ), the wood that was not covered was the best, and anything under metal was shot. I recall you do have to remove the front and rear quarters to access the main side rails. Bud, the '53 looks amazing! George
George Butz

WHEW!!! I finally managed to get the timbers out without too much sheet metal distortion. The mainframe timber was solid on the backside and the A-pillar was fractured too many ways from Sunday to even think of saving. Will order a new lower door jamb wood as well as the inner and outer left side scuttle to front quarter panel timbers, don't ask. Metal in good shape behind the timbers but will etch, prime and paint with semi gloss urethane before I fit the new timbers. It was a chore but I didn't have to pull the B-pillar or the rest of the side wood rearward. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks I will have it prepped and ready to go back to paint. Keeping my fingers crossed no one walks by it and sneezes until I get it back together
W. A. Chasser Jr

Still waiting for the additional replacement timbers to arrive from Moss hopefully by this weekend I can start the tedious process of massaging them to fit.
W. A. Chasser Jr

Update to the timber replacement. After much cussing and fighting I managed to get the A pillar, main timber and lower sill timber out of the car several weeks ago but destroyed the inner and outer cowl timbers where they attached to the front of the main timber. Ordered the wood from Moss only to find the a pillar is so out of spec that it looked too daunting to tackle.

Through Lawrie Alexander I met a gentleman named Bob Alley who lives up the hill from me. He offered to come down and take a look at what I had and offer his suggestions. While tooling up to start the arduous task of profiling the A pillar on my dad's Shopsmith I received a call from Bob to come up to his house yesterday and bring the original A pillar with me. Now you have to understand that the pillar was the absolute worst piece on the car suffering the abuse of slammed doors that had fractured the wood in several linear directions, pulled wood screw holes and the like. He had told me that he had reused much worse pieces in the past after using a product he swears by. Preferring to preserve original wood over replacemenst whenever possible. He had suggested Craig Seabrook also, but after talking to Craig earlier he wasn't likely to make any TD pieces until after the first of the year

Anyway... Bob pulls out these two pint cans of a product called Quik Poly. For those who may not be familiar with it, it is an epoxy resin that when mixed has a life of about 3 minutes, so you really have to work fast. The interesting thing about this product is it literally flows like water and fills the tiniest of cracks. it is soaked up in even the undamaged wood like a sponge and surrounds the cellulose fibers with in the wood itself. It backfills the tiniest of cracks and didn't even have to be poured directly into the crevices for it to seek them out. Very amazing stuff. After several applications (you don't want to mix up one big batch and waste it) the timber was finish all but for some simple sanding and Dremmel work where the latch mounting bracket will sit. It can be drilled and tapped. The wood is very stable now and I will not hesitate to reuse it on my TD. It saves me a lot of the headache of trying to fit ill fitting replacements from the high volume sources. Bob nor I have any affiliation with this product but I thought I would share my experience in hopes it might help others with similar problems. Bob also said even if dry rot is involved that this can be poured directly on the rot and it will flow into the fibers and stabilize it. This is not just a surface agent it actually is sucked into the voids of the fibers. Think how fast gasoline poured onto wood is sucked into it. Same thing with this product.

Okay so off the sales pitch. I'm going to sand blast the area that was under the wood to take care of some very minor scaling and then shoot it with epoxy primer and semi gloss black urethane and hopefully be able to start getting the timbers back in place in short order.

Cheers

Bill Chasser Jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Web site and new name.

http://kwikpolyllc.com/
James Neel

Thanks James for the correction on the trade name.

So this morning I sanded off the residual polymer and started to test fit the old A pillar, new main frame and lower door jamb into position. After several trial fits and drilling of holes... Success! I have back drilled the three holes for the screws that pull the pillars into the mainframe and angle iron frame work. Tapped the polymer for the new bolt and everything pulled up nice and snug. Hooray! Something positive for a change. I just have some minor dremmel work to do to reinstall the T nuts in the A pillar drill a few more holes for the 3 wood screws to engage the flat plate at the bottom of the A pillar and I think I'm ready to put it all back in place. The only issue I have yet to resolve is trying to replace the through screw at the bottom of the B pillar as I don't think I'm going to be able to pull the quarter panel back far enough to R & R it.
W. A. Chasser Jr

Yesterday I had a chance to work on the car. I media blasted the inside rocker and quarter panels to rid some very minor surface scale. I then used a epoxy primer sealer and finished with a semi gloss black urethane enamel. I then used a clear marine grade poly urethane clear on the timbers. Today will be spent for the final fitment of the lower sill, A pillar and main frame clamping into place and folding the flanges back into place to begin nailing it al back together. Then the firewall comes off to replace the two left timbers that where damaged during the disassembly (darn hidden screws) and to repair stress cracks at the lower corners of the toolbox

Bill
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Wow, I managed to get the left side cowl pieces fitted into place yesterday. The timber replacement is by far the most difficult part of the project to date but it is nearing completion. The reverse engineering involved may not have been the preferred method of replacement, yet it is doable without taking the entire tub apart. Thanks in a major way to Bob Alley for introducing me to the wonders of the Quik-Poly product that saved my A-pillar and a whole lot of time from reshaping poorly made pillars from a high volume supplier. Had Craig Seabrook been tooled up for TD wood or had them in stock, I'm sure I would have been way ahead of the game. I know my next project will use his services in the future as I have heard nothing but accolades re his work.

Next is the tig welding of stress cracks on the firewall at the lower toolbox corner, paint the underside and bolt it back into place and prepare the rest of the tub again for paint
W. A. Chasser Jr

This thread was discussed between 08/10/2014 and 11/11/2014

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