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MG TD TF 1500 - TDMkII file work on air manifold

I noted some weeks ago, that the pipe from the air cleaner to the carburetors on the late MkII has clear filed indentations on the MG medallion to fit inside the louvres.

In answer to the request for a photo, here it is.

I am not sure whether they are factory mods, or done in the 10 years before I acquired the car, but they are certainly necessary to prevent interference.

Are they found on any other MkII's ?
Ian Bowers

why doesn't the b****r show first time!

Ian Bowers

Or maybe cut by the bonnet louvers themselves?
Rob Edwards

Ian,

Ask Chris Cooper, he should know...

Jasper
JL Nederhoed TD#3966

I'm with Rob- worn by rubbing due to engine mount problem. George
George Butz

No!

They are far too deep for that, and there is no damage even to the paint on the bonnet louvres. It is a conscious piece of work.
Ian Bowers

...or Tom Lange.
JL Nederhoed TD#3966

Well you are not going to like the answer:

I don't know. I have seen Mk II's with the filed area and without it.

This one does not have it.

Chris Couper

But this car does have the filed mark.

Chris Couper

and this one does ....

H.D. Pite

So deep they're scary...

J Barry

My reading about MG and the way they approached the manufacture and presentation of their cars - they seem to have placed great emphasis on both proper engineering and aesthetics - I just can't imagine that they would attempt to address the problem by hacking in to the manifold in that manner.

It certainly would not be something that the owner of a brand new car would want to see when he opened the right side of the bonnet!
Jeff Delk

Interesting. Did the cars with the slots have the extra hood bulge? George
George Butz

Wow now that is odd. They all are somewhat in the same area. Are these all MKII?

Anyone else have this?

Bruce Cunha

George: I think the bulge is for the front of the air cleaner. In this case it appears to be some of the louvers hit the air intake.

Now the louvers could have caused this and then the hood was repainted after the grooves were cut. One would expect so type of wear on the louvers though.

I must agree I find it unfathomable that the factory would have to resort to such a drastic measure to fix an alignment problem. But we have lots of cars here that show the characteristic.

From Ian's description his hood would not close without rubbing if these voids were not there.

Ian how is the alignment of your engine? Is it vertical or is there a chance that over time the rubbers deteriorated on the engine stabilizer allowing the hood to fowl the air intake? Perhaps when that happened people elected to fix it once and for all by filing the manifold?

I have seen some other posts on this BBS where folks have fixed a problem by changing their car versus repairing the source. But it seems odd so many people would follow the same course.
Chris Couper

First the facts which may affect the answer. Perhaps importantly, this car is the second from last RHD MkII made. It was bought for a 21 year old daughter of a farmer living near Birmingham, and as far as I can find out never used competitively. Before I bought it it had only passed through three hands in the 11 years, and during that time had acquired a Smith's heater, and the starter converted to the Ford electric button switch. The only other obvious mod is that the radiator support rod on the carb side has been bent slightly to pass further under the carbs set. The air cleaner and manifold were still fitted. There wer no other modifications, so it wasn't adapted heavy handedly in any way.

At that time and since the engine has definitely been vertical and little or no play in the support, so I don't think rubbing wear could have caused so much metal removal.

My suspicion is that the factory was advised that some of the earlier cars with the larger manifold had indeed rubbed against the louvres and as a 'fix' the later versions had seen the working parts of a grinding wheel before factory installation. Brutal and not normal practice, but this was the end of the run, and so they needed to be finished, got off the plant and on to the sales floor quickly.

If this is correct the cars with the grooves are later cars. Can anyone support or destroy this view?

Ian B
TDMkII TD/C29438; XPAG/TD3/29885
Ian Bowers

Ian - according to my production records there were a few more RHD TD/C cars built (I thought I had written you about this before, but it may have slipped through the cracks). Arranged by chassis number (NOT date of MFG), here are all the TD/C cars built from yours to the last:

Yours TD/C29438 530717 XPAG/TD3/29885
TD/C29475 530716 XPAG/TD3/29765
TD/C29478 530716 XPAG/TD3/29782
TD/C29479 530716 XPAG/TD3/29863
TD/C29480 530716 XPAG/TD3/29678
TD/C29607 530722 XPAG/TD3/29734
TD/C29792 530813 XPAG/TD3/30159
TD/C29867 EXL/FL 530814 XPAG/TD3/30195
TD/C29908 530817 XPAG/TD3/30191
TD/C29909 EXLNA 530817 XPAG/TD3/30216


As you can see, the very last TD/C car was a LHD car (where is it???), as was the car two before it. So there were three RHD TD/C cars built after yours, all marked "HOME" in the records.

I am still puzzled by the code of car TD/C29867, where FL appears - Finland, perhaps? Why RHD then?

Another of the un-knowables, perhaps.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Indeed you did, Tom. I think the difference is that I am talking about extant and known RHD TDMkII and you, are referring to the production records, on which I willingly defer to your knowledge and research.

Also, picking up your point about which ordering approach is chosen, there is another fairly common MG subtlty, that the production date of mine, 530717 is later than the four later chassis but not engined cars. On that, very selective basis, it is fourth from last of the RHD cars.

Such fun!
Ian Bowers

I don't think its exclusive to RHD cars as some of the pictures above are LHD. I don't have the numbers on the pictures I have to figure out if its a late issue or not.

What could cause this only to be late in the production? I am not aware of anything that would cause a shift in the relationship of the engine such as a different mounting system or engine stabilizer.

I suspect at this point we would have to do some detailed measurements of Mk II's that have the condition versus those that don't. Probably best done side by side at a meet.
Chris Couper

Greetings all:

A rather lengthy enquiry to clear up my confusion regarding the Air Cleaner Pipe (aluminium), M.G. engraved and its fixing rumours.

As I Have not seen a real Mk II , at least a confirmed one in my area (close to Vancouver), perhaps someone can clarify the following.

Reference: TD Service Parts List, # AKD 834, June 1958.

P.J2: lists the Air Cleaner Pipe as Part # X 24277 and as there is no supersession number supplied I reckon that that specific part was used throughout the TD and TD2 runs.

I have seen the frontal lobe of some pipes ground off at an angle and was told it was due to interference from the Off-side (R/H) Radiator Stay Tube # 136252.

On my car, TD3191, this tube is kinked to miss the pipe and does so quite adequately; ergo: no adulterated pipe.

In Section "R" Supplement Mk II; P.R4: this pipe is relisted as Part # X 24271. TD/C

I was told, by someone supposedly in the know, that this pipe was made a bit longer, due to larger carburetters, thus enabling it to correctly receive the Air Cleaner was also made larger. Shaving was then considered necessary to eliminate chaffing and other part interference ?

All of which. in my mind, sounded quite befuddling and counter productive.

If that is the case, I can see some serious problems with rubbing, etal, developing. But the need for such extreme action viewed in a few of the photographs is definitely "over-kill" and smacks of some other hidden cause.

In the latter case, what became of the Stay Tube, was it further kinked or discarded totally ?

And, what takes place regarding the Air Cleaner Pipe Stud # X 24438 (secures the complete assembly to the claw bracket on the Induction Manifold # SA 2440) ?

I suspect the stud must still reach to properly anchor the pipe ?

Sorry to fumble on as I have, but I would like some insight on the theories, I was cited.

Cheers then; respectfully:
Jack Emdall

kernow

" I am not aware of anything that would cause a shift in the relationship of the engine such as a different mounting system or engine stabilizer."

Just a thought I'll throw out there:
The carb spacers (carb to intake manifold) I have seen over the years is thicker on TF's than on TD's.
In as much as the MKII used 1.5 SU's
Any chance the "thicker" spacers actually got changed during the run of MKII's?
Hard to tell from the pictures but the groves look to be about as "deep" as the thickness difference I have seen on spacers.

Just a guess on my part...what do you think?
David Sheward

Jack

I think you will find all the answers to your questions here in an article by Stewve Swarts, comparing the MKII air cleaner and manifold with the 'stndard' version.

http://www.tregister.org/ttt/issues/dltttarchive.php?from=archive&file=26

see page 24 ff

IanB
Ian Bowers

Ian ,
Very interesting read...thanks for putting it on here.
David Sheward

Indeed, interesting stuff.

FRX 942 has never had any air filtration system fitted to the carbs, I guess as a very early (1950) Mk11 pre production car performance was of the essence (for Dundrod & Silverstone) and engine longevity was not a huge issue. This would explain why 941,942 & 943 do not have bonnet bulges as there was no requirement to make room for a filter system. I guess UMG 400 (I think) which was possibly the first Mk11 is the same.

I just love the induction noise when revved without
any filter.

Mike
M Spencer

UMG 400 was the Le Mans entry (1951/2) built by Sid Enver using a TD chassis, lowered radiator and hot MkII engine in a special body which looked like the MGA to come; see image.

Ian Bowers

This thread was discussed between 13/09/2013 and 17/09/2013

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