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MG TD TF 1500 - Template for MG TD dashboard

I am in the process of restoring a LHD MG TD here in Italy and need to completely re-new the dashboard. The old one was a poorly very rough made one and is no good as a template. Specifically I am after the relative position and sizes of the holes for attaching to the backing board and the glove box in particular.
I am after a paper or card template.
Nigel Fox
N Fox

Hi Nigel. As no one has come to your aid I can offer the following pic. I have no idea where it came from other than to say it's from someone on this site. I saved it before I figured out how to delete the BBS number & add the author's name. Maybe the owner kept a template but if not you may be able to figure out what you need from the pic. I have an original RHD sub dash which may be the same as a LHD if it were flipped over, if that's of any use to you. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Pic

P Hehir

Hello Nigel,

I have to look what I have for you and will be back tomorrow.

Erik

ps Did you receive my email and/or app??

E
Erik van Hardeveld

Hello Nigel,

I have looked, but the spare dashboard that I have is from a TF, so quite different.
If you want I can sent you a photo or drawing of the dimensions of my own LHD TD or try to obtain a template within our T-type club.

Please contact me at erikvanhardeveld*online.nl (@for*), also concerning the Volumex.
Erik van Hardeveld

I have one here, will take a couple of days to get the measurements if you are still interested.

mog

I also have a spare dash and if you don't get one, let me know and I will make a template from it for you.
Bruce TD4139 Cunha

It would be a very handy thing to have a good quality template for those wishing either to rebuild and match the original or make their own out of wood, if someone does make a template, please post it!
Geoffrey M Baker

Sorry for the late response but I don't have broadband where I live so internet contact is difficult.
Anyway thanks one and all for your help it's much appreciated.
I am still interested in a paper or card template to help me complete the dash.
As Geoffrey Baker suggests it is a good quality template I am after. That's because I have done exactly what he says in that I have made a wooden dash to fit exactly the profile of my T type body that a friend of a friend has covered with walnut laminate.
I now need to put in all the holes for the instruments, the centre instrument panel and the glove as well as the outside holes to fasten it to the backboard. So that's what I am trying to achieve so any details that I can superimpose will be great.
Then comes the task of the finishing/varnishing process.
Erik, I will be in touch.
Thanks to all.
Nigel Fox
N Fox

Hi mog cattery. Are you going to the NEC this week end?
I am coming over from Italy on Fri. and will be going on Saturday. Your offer of getting the measurements would be great if your still prepared to do that. So it might be possible to meet up at the NEC?!!
Nigel
N Fox

I am still after measurements or a template for the dash. Not sure how to contact anyone directly but if either mog,cattery, United Kingdom or Bruce TD 4139 Cunha, Placerville, USA can send me contact details then maybe I can progress this request.
Nigel Fox
N Fox

Hi there, sorry I have been rather useless in responding, missed your post, and didnt get to NEC anyway.

Its a fiddly item to draw a template from, have started and discarded, tried again and discarded.

Its rather imprtant to get it right for you, I have to get my clutch off for balancing tomorrow, will give it another go soonest
mog

Hi, just a thought...
If someone wishes to trace a template onto a single sheet of drawing paper and add basic dimensions (width, height etc), and then mail them to me, I would be happy to scan it (probably in sections) and create an Illustrator document (*ai, eps or pdf) with precise dimensions that anyone could then print at home. If someone could trace it onto GRIDDED paper, that would be even better.

Geoff Baker
geoffreybaker@cox.net
3150 E Pima St
Tucson AZ 85716
Geoffrey M Baker

Its a fiddle, would rather not strip covering, trim etc off it, A camera that is very anoying to use does not help.

mog

Unfortunately, that's why they use scanners not cameras, the parallax issues mean cameras are worthless for accurate reproduction of measurements. Tracing it directly to the paper would give a much better result.
Geoffrey M Baker

H mog, Thanks. Will wait with eager anticipation as would rather have an accurate copy than one done in haste.
N Fox

Hi there, sorry for the delay, I have made up some measurements, still more to do as its a fiddly item. tracing to paper is not exact either, due to chamfer to the top edge you do have a chamfer Nigel?. 1st I tore down the dash and checked the screw size, pin size etc, then traced onto gridded paper, checked size with the stripped down dash and instrument panel etc. so here are some sizes and results, any observations or questions happy to answer, and if you want a copy Geof let me know. still a few bits to do. x axis works better from a center axis through the center of the dash agreed? y axis is from the bottom of the dash as it is a flat plane. the top of the dash is chamfered by approx .5cm down to the rear. I will get some height measurements at several points of the y axis.

mog

here is a panel laid over the template to check - red dashed line is the front edge top, black is rear.

mog

Here you can see how the profile is on the top edge, very nice cup washers are used on the front as well as screws to the bottom, 2 pins at bottom of trim then at a couple of inch up it goes to single pins.

mog

mog, a copy would be great. I'll scan it and turn it into an electronic file.
Geoffrey M Baker

mog,I am coming over to England again this week end for just a few days and will be in the East Midlands. So if you can complete and possibly send to an address I can give you separately that would be great. Let me know of any costs. Thanks, Nigel
N Fox

Give me the address Nigel
mog

Geoff, ditto.
mog

I've sent you my address, mog.
When I get them, I'll scan them as best as I can. My hope is to create a printable electronic document exactly to scale, with marks so you can if necessary print on multiple sheets of paper and assemble...
It may or may not work, but if it does I think it will be a great resource for the forum. We can always tweak it over time, and of course no one should expect a precise fit of ANYTHING on an MG, every car was a little different...
Geoffrey M Baker

OK, I got the template pages from mog and have assembled them digitally. I'll start using his measurements to make sure it all fits correctly.
Once the measurements are all correct, I'll convert it to an Illustrator file and start turning everything into vectors.
At any rate, here's a pic of the first step.

Geoffrey M Baker

I'm trying to use the screw holes as the important measurement points. Creating mog's x and y axis reference points (center of dash/bottom of dash), I found the screws to vary by small amounts. I took a measurement of each one and then when necessary moved the layers and slightly distorting them to try to get as many of the screw holes centered precisely on the rulers based on mog's measurements.
I've removed the gridding and everything but the outlines and screw holes at this point.
Mog, I'm using the photo you have with the screw hole measurement points. Do you want to check those again? Any variations or changes?

Geoffrey M Baker

Hi Geoff, looking good - page 2 might be the problem, the one without a screw measurement in it I think.

I dont have a copy of the template, you and Nigel had my copies, so I would have to make another.

The graph/grid paper I used is best I could get, 1 or 2 mm over the dash length accuracy. so edges are the most accurate: I did check both template with the screw hole measurements to check identical yours is the second copy, screw measurement from 1st copy, give 1 or 2 mm fiddle factor to the screw holes, as the screw hole is 4.5 mm diameter.

so if you get the template edges lined up, and screw holes as per my measurements, then at several points along the x axis you can check y points on the edges and we can compare? it will take me time to draw again.

mog

Are all screw holes 4.5mm diameter? Could you also take the following dimensions of the dash itself:
Distances:
Edge to edge through middle from widest points
Widest point of glovebox
Thanks! And thanks for all the great work tracing it, I think we will end up with something pretty accurate. I don't think anything was over 2mm off, after digitally stitching it together.
When I'm done (and this will take a while) I'll send you a pdf file you can print out and check against the dash itself. I'll include crop marks etc for alignment of individual pages.
Geoffrey M Baker

Sorry Geoff having a bad head day, what do you mean by "Edge to edge through middle from widest points"


width is 103.85 ( +/- .05 ) or 104.8 front - the bottom 2 cm or so is parallel with respect to other side.


glovebox is 27.5 / 12.7 max dimension

instrument holes are 5.0 mm so greater diameter than mounting screw holes.

cheers
mog

Thanks Mog
Here's phase 3... converted to vector objects so it's infinitely scaleable. Problem is, you have to go from a rasterized object with 20000 points down to a vector with maybe 300 points. So it makes good curves but still may only approximate the original. It will need plenty of tweaking when done.
I've got to check measurements, but I think I'm pretty close with most of it.

Geoffrey M Baker

I can supply a pdf to anyone who wants to play with it. So far I can't get it to tile properly (it does it fine in Illustrator, just not in pdf) but I'm working on it.
Geoffrey M Baker

Nigel, it seems to me as if this is getting exotically carried away. I have an outer fascia board whose outline I could readily trace onto a piece of stiff paper and mail to you. If that would suffice, just email me your mailing address and I'll have it in tomorrow's mail. Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud, the idea is to create a printable template anybody can use anytime, and just download and print. It's a bit more work to start with, but I think it would be of considerable use to TD owners in the future.
Geoffrey M Baker

Let me put it this way; I don't recall anyone being negative about Roy Challberg's hard work which resulted in a scaled set of pdf drawings for TD floorboards :)
What's the difference, just another TD owner putting some work into something that will be useful for hundreds of TD owners in the future, at no cost...?
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff I don't understand rasterized vector objects & the like but if your efforts result in an accurate & usable template capable of being transmitted electronically, then more power to you. When you get it sorted I'd like a copy, if only to check my RHD bespoke dash & subdash. I guess the RHD & LHD versions should be mirror opposites of each other? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Geoff, I have nothing against your creating a state-of-the-art set of drawings for professional graphics folks to use. I just think it's overkill for Nigel's request. He could have had a simple tracing a long time ago. Bud
Bud Krueger

Indeed he did Bud, Geoff is working on a copy, jolly good it is too, the dash is a pig of a shape but its something we stare at the most.
mog


Hi there mog and one and all. Thanks mog I got your sheets to build up into one paper or card template. Thanks very much for that. I can now hopefully move on and get the dashboard completed and then the electrics. It has been a great help.
Bud thanks for your offer and can see where your coming from but as above I now have the details to move on.
I also agree with Geoffrey in that it would be very useful to have it available electronically and that is taking time.
So whatever format will finally be available then whoever wants a template can decide which way they want to go, with more than one choice available. Obviously for me I can progress now with the paper sheets mog sent in the post.
It's my first use of this forum and have been very impressed with the help and enthusiasm shown by you guys.
It's a credit to you all and hope once the holes are in the dash I have that is covered in mahogany veneer, when finished, will do justice to the efforts you have made.The varnishing/lacquering will certainly be the next challenge to make it look as good as some I have seen online.
Thanks again one and all.
Cheers Nigel
N Fox

It won't be for professional graphics people to use, Bud; any ten year old will be able to open and print the file into 8x11 sheets and tape them together...
Geoffrey M Baker

This thread was discussed between 30/10/2015 and 16/12/2015

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