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MG TD TF 1500 - TF Radiator & Side Panel Alignment

Will you please give me some tips about aligning the radiator, radiator shell, and the side panels on my TF-1500?

I am replacing some of the wood. I want to make sure that the firewall, side panels, and bonnet are in the correct position before I replace latch pillars, front top rails, and front side rails. So I temporarily mounted the radiator and side panels to check the fit. Not good.

The radiator, side panels, and bonnet fit poorly since the first day that I bought the car five years ago. They may be even worse now. I want to get the fit correct before I continue with the wood.

The next two entries in this tread show my problem.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

SIDE PANELS AND RADIATOR

This is how the side panels meet the radiator. Big gap at the top. Overlap at the bottom. The tops of the side panels align with the front and back edges of the bonnet.

I have moved the bottom of the radiator as far forward as I think is possible (?) I may be able to tweak the mounting ears at the top of the radiator that attach the radiator shell (?) I can probably tilt the top of the radiator back about 3/8" with the radiator stay bars.

Five washers are between the tab on the radiator and the tab on the front of the left side panel.

The bonnet is resting on some of the catches, but the fit would be terrible even if the catches were removed.

> How can I move the bottom of the radiator forward?

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

SIDE PANELS AND REAR RAILS

This is how the side panels meet the rear side rails and rear top rails. They may be too far back, but they are parallel with the rails.

The front top rails and front side rails will be replaced.

> Thanks for any help that you can give to make the parts fit correctly.

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

If the radiator mount bar (between the chassis rails)is backwards the lower part of the rad/shell will be too far foreward. I think. Been a long time. I think the "loop" for the crank hole should be toward the front, with the more angled part to the rear. This should orient the holes correct. If that isn't right I have no idea! George
George Butz III

Ronnie,

Check the radiator mount bar position first.

Loosen the two bolts under the radiator to the frame. The radiator will now have free play you can use the stay bars to tighten / pull the radiator to close the gap.

After, tighten the bolts under the radiator after fitting.

Just went through this myself.

Frank
TF1414
Frank Cronin

Looks to me like the rad is leaning slightly to the left and the twist can be taken out with adjusting of the stay bars and the same time pulling the top of the rad back. Lonnie, did you remove the cross plate on the chassis the rad sets on? It might be on backwards. On mine. those holes for the rad mounts would move for and aft depending which way the cross plate was mounted, it will bolt up both ways. PJ
PJ Jennings

George, Frank, and PJ -

You may have diagnosed my problem. Won't know until I remove the radiator tomorrow.

The mounting bolts for the radiator seem to be closer to the rear of the cross plate than to the front. If so, then switching the position of the plate (L-R) will move the bottom of the radiator forward … which is what I need. Hopefully, tweaking the stay bars will finish the job.

I didn't remove the plate. Someone else may have reversed it before I bought the car.

The front and rear holes for the hand crank appears to be the same distance below the plate, so switching the position of the plate shouldn't affect the crank.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know what I find.

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

I just found this photo of the cross plate. Kinda looks like the holes are closer to the rear. I'll switch the plate tomorrow. (Photo was in the Google Photos album of my engine rebuild.)

Thanks again for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Lonnie, I’m in pretty much the same boat but my research tells me that your rad mount is the right way around. The bottom of my (original?) side panels overlap the sides of the grill just like yours as shown by the wear marks in my pic. If you move the rad forward won’t that increase the gaps at the back? I am slowly tweaking the top of the rad backwards to try to get a better fit along the scuttle. I think that is a more important area to get right as the front edges, apart from the bonnet/hood, are largely hidden by the wings and welting.
If the story of the man with the pair of shears trimming the panels to fit on the assembly line are true then he must have been having a bad day when he did ours.
My pic appears upside down in the preview. It also shows the captive nut at the bottom beside the lower rubber hole but what should be in the hole half way up? It is common to the grill, side panel and wing but there is no sign of any captive nut in that position.
Chris


C I Twidle

I tried to add the next pic to the last post but it simply replaced the previous one! Anyway, I’m looking for a use for the bracket on the side panel beside the radiator. It has signs of being used. I have the cross bar and angle brackets that go behind the fan and I don’t think it’s part of that assembly and there is nothing on my rad that looks to be related.
Thanks for looking,
Chris

C I Twidle

Chris,
you should have brackets attached to the radiator to attach the side panels.

Lonnie,

I had exactly the same problem with my TF, the radiator bracket around the wrong way, I also had to 'pack' where the side panel attaches and elongate mounting holes to make it all fit well.

Don
Donald J Walker

Chris -

Thanks for your pictures and comments. I agree that joint of the tops of the side panels and the radiator is more important than the bottom. And also agree that the fit at the top front rail and the scuttle are even more important. That's why I'm trying to get a perfect fit before I fettle the new latch pillars on my TF.

I'll check the results of switching the cross plate over the next couple of days. Also check the side panels, bonnet, front wings, and scuttle. Hope that we can help each other with our mutual project.

Whew! I thought that this restoration was going to be a piece of cake. WRONG!

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie,

The height of the side engine panel may need to be adjusted where it meets the scuttle line lower edge ie.driver's end. The bracket (black originally ) that is affixed to the bulkhead can be adjusted and set up and down from horizontal. This is why the Factory had rather large holes on the bulkhead for the two(2) bracket set setscrews. Any up and down movement there can make quite a difference to the front edge tapering gap of the side engine panel where it meets the line of the radiator shell. (particularly toward the bottom area).

I am hoping a previous owner has not ground away the edges of the bonnet
panel (or side panels) to achieve a fit with a body rebuild ! Unlikely, but
possible.

It may pay to temporarily put the particular bonnet rest rubber you will be finally using on the bulkhead wood strips. A few tacks here and there can
locate it. There is a small amount of movement allowable to reduce gaps by adjusting this bonnet rest rubber. The actual bonnet rest rubber can vary in its section(thickness) and shape. Brown and Gammons(UK) have a close to original profile.

TFs are a magnificent, sleek looking vehicle. However they are certainly one of the more difficult MGs bodywise to get right. Usually it is more than one factor of adjustment that gives rise to the fits you require.

Keep the questions coming.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

Rob Grantham

I think a PhD in 3D Macrame is what is required for knitting these things together. The PO from whom I took over had replaced most of the internal woodwork and added new metal panels where necessary. The three pieces of wood between the body and the bulkhead were still to be shaped. I attached the bulkhead to the supports and tested the fit to the body but found that the front of the body needed around 10mm of packing to get the gap parallel and the bottom edges in line. I think this is a bit too much so am thinking that I will taper the pieces towards the top by around 3-4mm. This should allow me to not only reduce the packing under the body but should bring the scuttle top that bit closer to the bonnet/hood.
I fear that sometime in the past someone has ‘adjusted’ this closing line as the back edge of the bonnet has quite a distinct convex curve.

Out of interest I found the best method for shaping the curved pieces was to scribe a line onto the front face using a long straightedge resting between the grill and scuttle edge with a spacer to allow for the thickness of the rubber. I was able to remove most of the waste on a bandsaw with the table tilted then followed up with a good old fashioned flat spokeshave.
Chris
C I Twidle

Section A20 fig A27 in the WSM shows the correct orientation of the crossmember.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Lonnie,
because of the way the rad is mounted, as you tilt the top of the rad back the bottom will move forward and up and will align with a bit of fiddling about. There is also a bit of wiggle room if you slack off the cross member and move it forward.
Have been through this a few times with my own and friends TF's.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Ray - Thanks, the photo in the WSM (Section A31, Fig A27) appears to show the holes for the radiator bolts closer to the rear than to the front, the same as the holes in my TF cross piece. So, I'll do try some adjustments suggested by other BBS members before I remove the radiator and switch the position of the cross piece.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Don't switch the cross piece, it is correct.I went through this last year with a mates car.
It was a TD and easy, on a TF it has to be right first time as everthing is fastened to the side panels.
Ray
Ray Lee

I made some progress toward a good fit of the radiator shell and side panels on my TF. The gap seems to be just about right for the piping that will be added. I didn't change the position of the cross piece. Compare this photo with the first photo in the thread.

I shortened the radiator stay bars to move the top of the radiator back. The bottom of the radiator and the mounting brackets on the firewall were already adjusted as far as possible.

The following two operations were the key to moving the radiator shell into a better position:

1) I unbolted the shell from the mounting tabs that are on top of the radiator. This allowed the shell to move farther back. I'll bend the tabs into the correct position and bolt them to the shell when I confirm that everything is in place.

2) I pulled on the bottom of the shell and it moved forward into good position. It didn't move when I pulled on it yesterday (?) It was temporarily attached to the radiator with a few screws. Need to see where it moved and secure it as needed.

Still need more work on the bonnet fit. The front of the side panel needs to be raised to reduce the gap at the bonnet. I inserted four or five washers between the bracket on the radiator and the tab on the side panel. Needs more.

MG club meeting tonight so I can't do more until tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone's input. I was dumbfounded without your help.

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

That’s looking good Lonnie! I should have thought of bending those grill/rad tabs as I just had to solder mine on! Grandparenting for the weekend so no more work for a few days.
Chris
C I Twidle

This thread was discussed between 17/10/2018 and 18/10/2018

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