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MG TD TF 1500 - TF rocker cover brass tag - rivets or screws?

Do any of you have TF rocker covers with SCREWS holding the brass tag to the cover that were originally attached at Abingdon?

Frank Cronin noted that TF9052 has screws, instead of rivets, attaching the plate. Screws sure would simplify restoring my TF rocker cover. I don't know how to attach with brass rivets.

Here is an excerpt from the thread in which Frank noted the screws. I attached his photo.

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Thread: The True Survivor MG TF -- Red TF 1500 #9052
Frank Cronin
Posted 28 November 2013 at 01:20:50 UK time

Last but not least. ... "Never say, NEVER" what is original on these cars. There are a few "stray cats and dogs" out there that the Factory must of had to do to finish these cars. Most likely a supply issue or what was on hand on the assembly line to complete the car. On this particular car, they did not use rivets to the body plate under the tool box lid AND the copper tag on the valve cover. Brass, dome head, flat style screws were used.

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Thanks for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Lonnie,

All I can say on this one is that I have never seen
'screws' used to affix the brass rocker clearance plate on untouched TF rocker covers. Of course we may indicate never say never with regard to some aspects of our cars I suppose.

If you can't get suitable brass rivets, they can be turned up on a lathe. A fine mandrel which supports
the head of the rivet whilst peening the rivet tail enables a good closure on the inside of the rocker cover.

This process is best done with two(2) persons involved. I set up the mandrel in a vice
and use a small,light Ball Pein hammer
to tap down the rivet tail whilst the rocker cover is held in the horizontal position by an assistant.

Quite an easy process really.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").






Rob Grantham

My TF 9097 was built on the same day as 9052 and still has its rivetts.
M Magilton

I was afraid that your answers would be "rivets, not screws."

I don't know a local machinist to turn the rivets. Plus, even though Rob says it's easy, I'm not sure how to set them in the confined space of the rocker cover.

I'll gladly pay anyone to turn the following rivets:

> Two brass rivets for the brass plate on the rocker cover.

> One aluminum special rivet to hold the chain for the oil filler cap on the rocker cover.

> Two brass 7/64" rivets for the gas cap and trigger on the gas tank.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

If you have any joy with the rocker brass tag rivets Lonnie I'd love a couple. I'm working on an original rocker cover at present. The tag hasn't had the lettering almost obliterated with the buff or worse, which was the usual approach when prepping for chrome plating - all the rage in the 60's. The plate is pristine and the cover has light surface rust and remnants of the original silver paint. A series of wire brushes on my drill press is cleaning it up nicely. I'm keeping well away from the tag though. I won't remove it unless I have the rivets in hand. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Since no one volunteered, I went down to the garage to look at the magnitude of the job.
I found my plate had one brass rivet and one aluminum rivet.
So I should make at least one. I do hate to remove the valve cover since its nice and tight with one of Tom's new gaskets.

I have posted a picture of what MY brass rivet looks like.
Is this correct?

The top is flat, there is about (estimated) a 30 degree rounded sloping wall
I measure the bottom diameter of the head to be 0.098" to 0.095".
I measure the depth or height of the head to be, some where around 0.115" =/- 0.002"
I measure the thickness of the brass plate to be 0.030" to 0.025"

I need the thickness of the valve cover metal. I need the diameter of the hole in the valve cover and brass plate.

I will add the thickness of the brass plate and the valve cover and add 1/16" to get the overall length of the shank.
I have a length of 1/2" brass rod.
I f I can those two dimensions I will try to make some.

These are small pieces. Perhaps too small for "My Old Lathe".
If I am at all successful, I can sent two to Lonnie, for testing.

Since I need one, and I have both the raw material and the time, no cost.

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

Hello Lonnie. This is the setup I use for those types of jobs. The forming set is removable so I can use different sizes and types of rivet sets.

Butch T

R Taras

Hi Jim. The guy that can answer the question of what an original brass rivet should look like is Rob Grantham. The diameter is determined by the size if the original hole in the plate, it was apparently domed slightly but unless the correct mandrel is used it may well have its head flattened during the fitting. Tomorrow (Monday here) I'll be contacting the suppliers of brass rivets here I'll post the result. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

These should do the job. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solid-Brass-Button-Round-Head-Rivets-DIN-660-M2-M3-M4-M5-M6-/253782703483. They are 2 mm shank diameter, solid, round head, brass rivets 4 mm in length. Anyone have a better source or solution please let me know, before I place the order. These come from China and are about $5 for a pack of 100. It's important to make a suitable mandrel to not deform the rivet head or damage the brass plate during assembly, as Rob Grantham stresses. It should be possible with a drill bit or a Dremel or even a die grinder and a piece of scrap steel flat bar; with a bit of trial and error first, before you attempt to fix your lightly but highly polished brass plate to your silver painted rocker cover. If these are OK then we'll make them free to TTORC members. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Lonnie.
Save yourself a lot of grief.
Just use any small brass screw and file the heads until smooth and round. Then use them as rivits. They will not be hard to do with help to hold the valve cover whilt you tap the scfrew on the inside. Be certain the cut the screw short enough. it does not need much lafft to peen over as there is not much strength needed.
Sandy
Sanders

To save $5 Sandy why would you bother? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just sent a shipping inquiry to the link in the UK listed above. 50 off M2 x 4 mm is way more than I need but the shipping will probably cost more than the rivets, so why not. They're cheap enough and should satisfy the most fastidious Concours judge. This means I can completely strip the rocker cover and reveal the original untouched paint underneath. I'll take a pic of the colour before I wire brush it off. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

How did you get to the 2 mm shank diameter? Did you measure the hole in the plate? If so what did you measure?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

2 mm shank was the smallest that they had Jim and it looked about the right size. I'm yet to remove the peening from the inside so that I could remove the plate to reveal the diameter of the original hole without damaging it. I also had some feedback offline suggesting that they should do the job. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I have checked the hole diameter in an untouched
TF Rocker Cover where the brass rivets affix the brass clearance plate, and the hole diameter is approx. 1.5 mm.

The brass rivet head size is approx. 2.5mm.

I suspect the same for TDs.

Cheers
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

The rocker cover I'm repairing had aluminium rivets and so can't be original. I just then drilled out the rivets with a 1 mm bit to reveal what is not the original untouched paint finish I'd hoped to see. But it certainly looks more silver than anything else. No sign of any green. What's left of the aluminium rivet sits to the right of the plate. Pic attached. And no reply yet from the UK supplier re total cost of the 2 mm brass rivets to Sydney including shipping. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

I would like to note that the UK did not fully embrace the Metric system until the late 1960's
Now if it's an engine part and made in the old Hotchkis engine works it did use metric tooling. Albeit with BSF hex heads.

If the valve cover was made elsewhere, It might be imperial and not metric.

Rob said the diameter was 1.5 mm. (About 0.060") This is very close to 1/16"
The head was 2.5 mm,(about 0.100") close to 3/32", or perhaps 7/64.. I did measure 0.098/0.095 on mine.

These rivets are very close. The head, however, is specified at 0.102 to 0.122.
A quick touch on the lathe would take care of that.

If needed I could purchase 100 and touch them up

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

I'd be very interested Jim. I'll email you off line. The two bits of gear that I don't have and regret not having are a lathe and oxy. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 03/09/2020 and 11/09/2020

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