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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TF Speedometer connections

Hi Doing a bit of a clean and check on my TF speedo and wondering what the 2nd connection on the rear is. It's the brass coloured connection off centre. I assumed it had a round nut on it that was stopping the speedo comming apart when all other screws removed but the whole connection is moving and not the nut.
Can anyone tell me what this is and if and how it comes apart.
Thanks Darryl

D Lamb

I believe3 that it is where the reset cable is inserted.
SANDY

Thanks Sandy that would make sense not that I have the reset cable though.
Has anyone dismantled a speedo. How does this come apart.
D Lamb

I have opened mine. Once the unit is on a bench, rotate the face rim so that you can remove the glass.
Carefully remove the needle. I believe I used needle nose pliers, very gently. Once the needle is off, you can remove the face and access the inner mechanism.

Make note of the position of the needle on the spindle, as it needs to go back in the same position.

Tom
'54 TF
T Norby

Thanks Tom but reluctant to remove the needle so I am trying to dismantle the inner workings from the back but the brass connection is causing me problems.
In connection with marking when removing the pointer just explain to me what you mark. The shaft obviously but it's so small and I imagine moves as soon as the pointer is taken off.
D Lamb

Darryl -

Tips on removing the speedometer from the housing:
Search the archives for ...
2011121600481312664

You don't need to remove the speedometer needle, but you do need to remove the clock hands. The face will stay attached, but you will be able to reach most of the speedometer gears etc. I broke the shaft on a speedometer in a '54 Chevy truck trying to remove the speedometer needle, so I'm a little gun shy about removing anything more than necessary.

I had a clock maker / watch maker remove the clock hands on my TF.

Be gentle in cleaning. Clean dust with a soft artist's brush. Mineral spirits may be needed to soften old grease, but use it on a brush almost dry. If it drips, it will probably remove the paint and numbers from the dial and the odometer.

Use only a tiny bit of lubricant. The watch maker can probably recommend the best type. Heck, have him lube it for you.

Avoid any solvent or cleaning solution on the face or odo numbers. Even water may cause a problem.

I masked the face and used a foam brush to paint the speedo needle with flat white enamel paint. Paint the clock hands before reattaching.

Speedometer manual - "Repairing Jaeger & Smiths Speedometers"
http://home.comcast.net/~rhodes/speedo.pdf

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Forgot to mention the TINY screw on the trip odometer connection.

TM Going described it in the last post of the archive that I noted ...
"Not so easy was removing a screw about the size of a small piece of rice that is on the shaft of the tripometer and that is accessed by a small hole in the side of the back base that attaches the trip cable."

To answer your first question, here is how the odometer cable attaches to the back of the speedometer and to the passenger glovebox (LHD)

Lonnie
TF7211



LM Cook

I just noticed - in my photo of the odo cable, you can see the hole in the odometer connection through which you can remove the TINY screw.

Also when you replace the clock hands, position them at 12:00 so that they will be in the correct position at any time setting.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Your a star Lonnie thanks. I thought it was a pin and have been trying to push it out. Going to need a magnifying glass for this one. All my pointers need paint so going to try the enamel with the pointers in situ.
I have been searching the archives since I wrote the request but didn't find half of what you mention.
Thanks again Darryl
D Lamb

Don't know about the "star" attribute, but thanks.

Not to mislead anyone about masking the face before painting the indicators ...

Don't use tape to mask the face. Use something that won't scratch the face and also something that will not bleed paint through to the face. Do the same on the tach and the oil/amp/temp gauges.

Cleaning the inside of the glass makes a big difference, too.

My speedo with painted needle. No change to the face or to the yellowed odometer. Definitely not a concours quality car.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

No big deal to remove the hands on any instrument. Though there is a special puller we never bothered to use it. Two cabinet makers screwdrivers opposing each other at 180 degrees work just as well. The pointer does tend to fly off however so watch your eyes. This is the method I & other instrument fitters in the RAAF used in the 60's on all manner of suck & blow instruments. Simple, quick & effective. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

You can buy those miniature tools to remove clock hands on the net for a reasonable price. Much cheaper than repairing a damaged speedo due to pulling too hard on the pin. JMHO. PJ
Paul S Jennings

If I should decide to remove the hands where do you mark to enable you to get the hand back on in the same position.
Went down to the workshop in work where they had a tiny screwdriver and a magnifying glass for working under and had no problem removing the tiny screw from the trip set spindle on the speedo. I couldn't even see it with the naked eye.
Picked up some Hobby Spray Enamel in white which I plan to paint the hands with after masking the faces.
Again thanks for the help everyone.
On an aside I am not sure what the outer casings are made of but it looks like some sort of allow on the water amp oil meter so surprised to see one side is rusted on my rev counter....

D Lamb

Darryl, the magnetic instruments use a hairspring to pretension the needle against the magnetic tension. It's this pretension that keeps the needle against the peg when the needle is at zero. If you gently lift the needle over the peg and release it you'll see that it comes to rest at a point somewhat to the right (CCW) of the peg. This is the position at which the needle must be reinstalled to retain the speedometer calibration. You need to take careful note of that position before you remove the needle. I hope this helps. Bud
Bud Krueger

Now I understand Bud thanks may be tempted to remove it now!
D Lamb

Darrly,
To remove the pointer and not damage it or the instrument. You could get hold of one of these tools.
It does the job correctly but as Bud said make a good note of where the needle position was before removing it.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Gauge-Pointer-Puller/205547_463867188.html
Rod

R. D. Jones

Cheers Rod thanks.
Quite funny Rod you should check out the "Hot Sexy Underwear" on the same page.
D Lamb

Could not find any underwear LOL
But did notice the item was no longer available bummer. Only other pointer puller I could find was something like 24 euros Ouch
for a one time deal not worth that kind of dosh.
The good think about this type of puller is it supports the shaft and does not cause any damage when extracting the pointer. If you just pull up on the pointer you could damage the mechanism that drives it. :)
Not had mine apart so cane really say for sure. But be very carful if prying it off.

This ones a little better at 14.50 GB Pounds on Ebay

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/BUDENBERG-3-90-pointer-remover-extractor-hand-TOOL-rare-puller-BN-new-/131081301198

Rod
R. D. Jones

If you have a simple fork in your silverware drawer, use it to remove the needle pointer. Put the shaft between the tines of the fork and pry up.
readlist

That brings me right back...my Mother still has bent knives in her drawer from when I used to change the tyres on my bike!
Think I am leaving them on. No need to take off

D Lamb

After fitting a 5 speed gear box my speedo doesn't read correctly. As a temporary measure have checked the car speed with my iphone and put white dots on the glass at 30/40/etc. If I remove the glass/needle, drive the car at exactly 30 and refit the needle to show 30 will this recalibrate the speedo?

Jan T
J Targosz

Jan, no it will not. You will be correct at 30 mph but at no other speed.
Cheers, Hugh
H.D. Pite

Hi Hugh,

If I send my speedo to a specialist how do they do a recalibration? Remagnetise the rotor or perhaps change the strength of the coiled spring?

Jan
J Targosz

They change the spring at least or you can get a correction gearbox from Declan Burns.
Dave H
Dave Hill

They do something Magic ith the spring but minne they also changed the gears so the odometer reads correctly.
An external gearbox also adjusts both!!

Don Harmer

Quick update on the instrument work. Painted the hands using enamel spray paint. Did this in situ but somehow even with masking the white paint came through onto the speedo face. Disaster I thought but the faces and the paint easily cleaned off with baby wipes!
All mechanisms appear to be working ok after 40 years of non use. The rev counter is a bit stiff. I don't know if this is normal but I am going to head to my local watch fixer and get him to oil/grease the mechanisms and still to attach the clock hands.
Thanks for all your help.
The hands now look a bit too white!


D Lamb

Darryl -

They look good. Is the capillary tube to the temp gauge still attached? I didn't see it in your photo.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Hi Lonnie The attached picture shows a short tube comming out of the temp gauge. Not sure if this is the correct length or what it attaches to. Any help would be much appreciated likewise for the oil gauge.
Thanks

D Lamb

Darryl, you have a problem there. That stub of tubing is what's left of a piece of tubing that goes from the instrument all the way up to the water pump. It's filled with ether and causes the needle to move as the ether expands with temperature. Sorry about that. Bud
Bud Krueger

Darryl -

The needle on your speedo is on the wrong side of the peg. Gently lift up the tip and move it over the peg to the other side. The tach is OK.

I've read about collector car owners who have replaced a missing or broken temp gauge capillary tube and bulb:

+ Buy a generic mechanical temp gauge from an auto parts store.
+ Chill the bulb in an ice/salt brine solution or something colder. Most of the ether is in the bulb.
+ Cut the tube near the gauge. (You won't use the generic gauge, just the bulb and tube.)
+ Insert the cut end into one end of a sleeve and the short end of the MG cap tube into the other end of the sleeve. Solder-sweat the sleeve onto the two tubes.

I don't know if it actually works. And I don't know if the threads on a modern temp gauge are the same as the MG.

I wouldn't have the nerve to do it. I would either blow up or go to sleep!!

Lonnie
TF7211

Image:
Temp probe and cap tube. Unrestored TF9052

LM Cook

Darryl, I've done the DYI replacement of the ether tubing. It can be done, and for a very low cost. Check the archives.
I'm guessing that our speedometer needle is still in its original 'right-of-the-peg' location. Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks Lonnie and Bud for your help. It's great you find a problem I didn't know I had and then solve it in the same breath. Don't remember seeing anything like the coil of tube in your pic Lonnie. I guess our car was run without! Will investigate the archives Bud. Cheers
D Lamb

Darryl,
Here is the temp bulb for a oil temp gauge I did not fit to my TD back in the day. The bulb part is identical to the water temp bulb.
I believe the fitting is 1/2" STD Pipe Thread so most should fit but check the rad fitting for a good thread before you cut anything :)

The capillary is wrapped in wire to protect it.
Goes through a big hole in the scuttle with a nice large grommet.

Place several turns in the capillary after the bulb when you fit it to the Rad. To relieve vibrations. Nothing smaller than 2" See picture.

R. D. Jones

Thanks RDJones for your help. Does the other end of the temp gauge go into the radiator or the water pump.
D Lamb

Should the speedo and rev counter move easily. My speedo moves easily but the rev counter is a little stiff.

Also from the rear should they move clockwise or anticlockwise. Plan to get some oil from a clock mentor but want to make sure I am turning them both the right way.

Thanks
D Lamb

Darryl, TDs have the bulb in the rear of the top tank of the radiator. TFs, like yours, have the bulb going into the water pump, as shown in Lonnie's image above.

If you opt to splice a new ether tube onto the stub of yours you MUST remember to slide the nut over the tubing before you solder it together. Bud
Bud Krueger

Darryl -

The speedo cable input turns anticlockwise as viewed from the back of the speedo. I am not sure about the direction of the tach.

Make sure that the speedo turns freely with no drag or intermittent drags. You can use a small screwdriver to turn it. Old lube may have hardened on odometer gears. One of the gears is a composite material. If you force it, the teeth of the gear will probably strip off.

Not sure about the cause of your sluggish tach. Is it sluggish when you spin the cable that goes into the tach? Or is it sluggish when you spin a small screwdriver inserted where the cable tip goes?

If you are using the cable, then you may need to clean and lube the cable.

If you are using a screwdriver, (just a guess) the bushing where the cable enters the gauge may be dry or may have old hard lube. Your clock mentor may be able to advise.

OFF TOPIC:

While you're at it (#1) - Lube the tach drive and the generator. The operation manual calls for oil in the tach drive. I used chassis grease. I think that I may have forced open the seal on the case by doing so. Others can give better advice. The felt pad for the generator lubricator is available from Abingdon Spares. Part number 35 061a.

While you're at it (#2) - Check the tension on your fan belt using advice from Dave DuBois ...
http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/Other_Subjects/Electrical/TD/Keep_Your_Belts_Loose.pdf

While you're at it (#3) - I use a segmented fan belt from NAPA part number 25-22392. A similar belt is Gates Green Stripe II TR22392. 11/16" x 39 3/4" (17mm X 1010mm) Truck and Bus series belt made by Gates.

Sounds like you are making good progress.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Cheers Bud bit like wiring a plug and forgetting to put on the cap.
Yes sorry I did know it was the water pump just got thrown by the mention of the radiator. Just wondering is it the thermostat housing which in my case was broken until I got a replacement from Hugh or is it the actual pump. All with my engine guy at the moment so hard to check. And if it's not the thermostat housing what is the extra hole in the housing.

Thanks again Lonnie for all the info. I was turning with a small flat head screwdriver and it is definitely stiff in comparison to the speedo but it is turning.
Speedo isn't bad and the composite wheel is very clean.

Unfortunately my Dynamo has had a different armature inserted without the extension for the tachometer drive mechanism although I do still have this just not the original armature.
I need to give this some thought. Possibly I should change to an alternator that looks like the old Dynamo and has the extension. I think this can be got. No decisions made and all advice grateful received.

The pic is my broken thermostat housing. Broken at a bolt/sensor hole and plugged with filler.


D Lamb

Darryl, I sometimes know a bit about TDs, but I always get in trouble when I get into TFs. I do not know where the temperature bulb gets inserted on a TF. Hopefully, one of our TF'ers will clarify that for us. Bud
Bud Krueger

And Bud do you think I can just by a new temperature gauge etc and use that to make a new one
D Lamb

Darryl, the donor that I used to replace mine was from the least expensive temperature gauge that I could find. If you do some archive hunting you'll find some information on doing it. Let me dig through my own archives and find the info about a fellow Irishman who did the swap. The approach is to submerge the tube end into a pan of ice water, to minimize the ether pressure, and cut the tubing. Slip the appropriate nut over the tubing and solder the new tubing onto the open end of the old tubing. There are a number of details to work on, but that's the basic approach. ALL soldering is done with an electric soldering iron. NO OPEN FLAMES!!
Bud
Bud Krueger

Darryl, see http://www.ply33.com/Repair/tempgauge for a good look at the approach. Bud
Bud Krueger

Found it. Check with:
Dave Moore
Cintra
6 Novara Terrace
Bray County Wicklow
Ireland

Dave_Moore (at) utvinternet.com
Bud
Bud Krueger

Cheers Bud I know Dave Moore through this forum. He dropped over in his TF. I will contact him about this. Thanks for all your help
D Lamb

Ha - I was just reading this thread and was thinking 'wow I have actually done that and could even help'. Now I feel i can pay back for at least some of the great advice I have had over the years.

Give me a call Darryl and arrange to pop over. It is tricky but can be done.

I have all the necessary bits except the donor thermostat and they can be got in most parts shops.

Dave
D Moore

Darryl -

We didn't answer your question about the oil pressure fitting.

A copper oil line with fittings on each end (Moss #435-548) screws into the threaded outlet on the back of the oil pressure gauge. The line goes through the firewall inside the battery box.

The other end screws onto a short brass tube attached to a bracket on the firewall. Moss #435-530

A braided flexible hose (Moss #376-060) connects to the short brass tube and to a banjo fitting low on the block. A copper line is soldered to the banjo and soldered to another banjo on the head near plug #4. Moss #435-520. Use new cooper washers on the banjo bolts if you remove them. Moss #324-760.

Lonnie TF7211

Photo:
Oil line from gauge to short brass fitting attached to bracket firewall. Flexible hose to brass fitting. (Unrestored TF9052)

LM Cook

Thanks Dave and Lonnie

Dave thanks for the offet I will be in touch. I am a bit of a way of this though. All steam ahead on the engine front. Parts arriving next week. Filling time with nice little jobs like this!

Lonnie again you are a mind of information. Just cleaned up my old brass pipe and fitting for the oil gauge only to find I had a new one on the shelf. Will stick with the original as it's perfect.
D Lamb

Darryl,

One thing about the oil line to the pressure gauge. To get a good and direct read of pressure, I bled the air out of mine.
With the dash was pulled back a bit, loosed gauge nut with engine running then nipped it up tight when oil appears Checked for leaks before mounting the Dash. Air will compress but oil won't. May be over kill but it seems to work OK for me.

Rod
R. D. Jones

Thanks Rod sounds like a good idea.
D Lamb

This thread was discussed between 03/06/2015 and 13/06/2015

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