MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Two bow hood frame

While stripping a friends hood to renew the top bow wood I found it different to any other I have worked on.
The locating socket is steel and welded onto the cross frame and not a copper insert in the wood like mine (TF).
Is this an owners modification or an early standard ?.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I believe my frame to be factory. Its the same one since 1966.
The wood is new and the cutouts are slightly different.
The fixing wing screws are also new, but close to originals.
Not sure about Allen screw, I think slotted would be more correct.

Two pictures.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Second Picture top.

Screw is hidden by cloth and it was what I had.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim,
that is exactly what I expected to see with the brass socket in the hole. We found a steel tube welded to the frame instead.
It works so may just leave it as it is.
Ray
Ray Lee

Could you expound a bit on the brass inserts?
Neither my old wood or the new wood has them.
I can see where a sleeve could fit But it would need clearance for the fasteners.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim B.,

Moss 406-920, socket in header rail, $5.89

Abingdon P. 55 Chrome Trim: Item 45B Copper Socket, Front Bow $5.75

Pictures are not very good but the socket has a hole in the side for the wing nut.

Jim N.
James Neel

Thank you Jim N, I never knew the car had them.
On order now.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Ray,

Before you wrap the wood piece with your chosen hood material, it pays to apply a double sided tape strip under the area of the wood piece which 'sits'
on the top windscreen chrome frame. This slight cushioning effect will give you a great seal between the material and the windscreen frame.

I suspect that originally the MG factory designated upholterers used a similar seal in this area of the car. Posssibly a rubber strip.

Of course the seal strip is not visible under the material wrap.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Sound engineering to address the poor design of the original configuration reliant upon the press fit of the copper socket.

I really struggled with my TF to be reliant on the peg/socket design to apply tension to the hood during fitment. A user who raises and lowers their hood frequently will compromise the security of the socket as was evident on my original hood bow wooden frame.

Fitment of a metal facings around the new wood bow socket penetrations to support the sockets provided a compromise solution.
G Evans

G Evans-you are right about the poor design ideas with the hood.

I find the best way to fit the hood is to end up having very little resultant
tension on the windscreen pegs when the hood woodpiece/ copper hood guides are lowered onto them.

The hood cloth tensioning works well when the back is screwed onto the
rear tacking strips(3) ,and the hood's material front edge is tacked onto the
wood front hood bow. When the hood frame is extended forward the tension
is within the hood frame and therefore does not rely on having any tension
on the windscreen pegs. Takes a little trial and error with the frontal tacking
but well worth the effort in the long term.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

My TD, even back in 66, did not have a factory top. It had one with quarter windows in the top,

I am getting ready to have a new top installed. When I removed the old the front wood tacking strip had a foam strip installed on it. 17/32 wide and (about 1/8 thick. Original? But dates to befor3 1966.

PS
White plastic bar is gas gauge

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

I am going to reread this when I get to the top on my restoration. Any pictures of the brass plug on the top?
Bruce Cunha

Off brown & Gammons site
Ray

Ray Lee


Now what is the correct orientation?
With the flange between the frame and the tacking strip or with the flange on top of the wooden tacking strip?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

it would appear that the insert should go in from below, between the wood and the frame. It would appear that the fixing screws to the from should then be inserted, the wing screws are next inserted and the inset orientated, and then the ears are bent over into the milled slots?

Yes/no?

Oh BTW it did not appear that the original wood had any protective finish on it.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Put a coat of varnish on the copper insert before using. The copper can oxidize in use and leave nasty green stains on your top.
Lew Palmer

It wouldn't do any harm to put a coat of varnish or something similar on the wood as well, though there was none originally.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Useful info here as I'm also about to undertake this exercise. I used a water based waterproofing membrane that just paints on for the bespoke sub dash and the ply floor front and rear. I'll use the same stuff on the 3 pieces of rear timber and the front piece of hood timber. Perhaps paint the copper bit as well. Good tip Lew about the green staining. The pics that you're posting Jim are really useful also.

I've purposely not finally fitted the trim to the doors or rear quarter panels so that I can alter the locations of the various fixings to ensure that the hood and side curtain frames are fitting perfectly with each other, before I attempt to fit the hood fabric. I plan to use some scrap bits of ply tacked onto the timber fame to approximate the thickness of the finished trim. The idea being I want to be able to relocate the fixings as often as needed until I'm happy, without turning the frame or the trim into Swiss cheese. I'll then make hole templates to overlay over the trim to ensure the final fixing holes are in the correct locations.

Worth mentioning that it's essential to check the fit of the side curtain frames against the stitching on the covers before proceeding. The window stitching location on the set that I bought from Moss has issues which affect the relationship of the front and rear frames. Knowing what I know now about the original method of manufacture of the original hood and side curtains, I wouldn't have used the Moss stuff and would have had them made locally. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Ray,

It is an idea to insert the copper guide socket after the wood piece has been covered with the hood cloth. In that way the fling of the copper socket holds the cloth neatly in position under the flange.

Also the hole/slit to be made around the hood frame where the wing nut
enters, needs the material cut carefully i.e. not too large.

Stand behind the car when fitting up the pivot points of the metal hood frame to the rear quarter panel and observe for level. Many restored cars
have their hoods higher on one side compared to the other ! Not a good
look.

The front of the hood to wood piece has a strip of hidem binding (originally similar to the hood cloth edging in colour and not vinyl) which covers the tack line. At each end of this strip are tacked on a finishing end fitting. Many of the 'modern replacements' here are made of steel ! They will put an orange rust stain on your hood material over time. The ones with the brass (nickel plated) base with correct shape are the fittings to apply.

I have found many of the correct type at Swap Meets.

Peter is correct. Unless by some rare miracle your body tub has never been
rebuilt,fitting up a pre made hood/sidescreens can be an arduous task.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Rob can you post a pic of the correct finishing end fitting? I guess the ones used by Moss are steel not plated brass? If so I'm in the market for a pair. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

It would be a pleasure to assist.

I have sent you an email. Jus let me know you received it.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Many thanks Rob. I've just replied with my address. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Lew:
I put two coats of black enamel on the copper inserts last night.
Rob:
Sounds like I should not bend the ears until we go to the upholsterer to put the top on.

Now it seems as though there may have been two configurations.
Dave B, on his page mentions a BRASS insert. He also said thet he could not fit the inserts. Someone else also mentioned brass. Todays are copper.
The picture I posted of my old wooden tacking strip does not have the cutout for bending the copper ears. (If that is the way its done?).
Could there have been an early system, later changed? I also note that the modern wood tacking strip is Ash, and hard. Not really suitable for tacks. My older wood is much softer. It could be that 67 years have not been kind to it. I also note that the tacking strips around the rear tub are also softer wood.

Any comments?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Does anyone have a picture of how the copper bushings are inserted.

I had assumed from underneath the tacking board.
In that configuration the holes for the attaching wing screws will not line up.

If inserted from the top the slots, which I assumed were for the ears, are not used and there are no equivalent reliefs in the bottom.

I am stuck.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

For the life of me, I cant figure out how the copper inserts would fit.
I gave up and made ones out of Brass.
I just happened to have a length of 1" available from another project.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim I have a couple of these copper ones from Moss so I'm also keen to know how or if they fit. If they're not suitable they'll become item 71 on my "Items to avoid" list. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Not necessarily to defend Moss, but I got mine from Abingdon.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

This thread was discussed between 12/03/2019 and 18/03/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now