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MG TD TF 1500 - VIN number

I would think this should be straight forward but I am having a registration problem. When I bought the car 7 years ago, it had an Indiana title showing the VIN# as LHX5999. I then registered the can in Illinois and they used the same number on their title. Now that I have moved to North Carolina they require a physical inspection by the Licensing and Theft Division for any car brought in from another state that is more than 35 years old.. The state inspector says the previous title (Illinois) was incorrect in that LHX5999 is not a proper VIN and I may have to post a three year bond in order to register it. Attached is a picture of the plate. What is the VIN?

Bob McLeod TD 5618

Good day Bob:

5618 is the Chassis No. or VIN; LHX 5999 is the engine number. The LHX refers to LH drive X = export

if you go to www.tregister.org and type in TD5618 you will get the build date the Chassis No. and Engine No. from the production records

Jack Emdall, TD3191 EXLU, XPAG/TD/LHX3525, Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia, Canada
Jack Emdall

Bob-
Most TD VIN's use the "Car number", actually the whole car number (line 1 and 2). Sometimes TD's will get registered by the engine number as yours has been. Since the VIN plate can be removed and replaced the car number also shows up stamped in the dumb iron, left side. I had a similar problem here in Calif. I bought a TD in New Hampshire with only a receipt. To register in Calif. I had to have a police officer inspect the VIN plate plus the dumb iron stamp and verify the correct number. Then the DMV required a bond to guarantee no previous claims on the car (i.e., lien holders). The bond cost roughly $100.

I'm sure every state is a little bit different. Good luck with the DMV.

Roy
Roy Challberg

Well not to throw water on the fire:

It was not uncommon in the early 1950's for cars to be registered to the engine number. My car still is. The concept of a VIN was not well established. Today its very formal. So often the vehicle registration was done with about any number that seemed to be unique.

From Wikipedia

VINs were first used in 1954. From 1954 to 1981, there was no accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats.

In 1981, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the United States standardized the format.[1] It required all over-the-road-vehicles sold to contain a 17-character VIN, which does not include the letters I (i), O (o), or Q (q) (to avoid confusion with numerals 1 and 0).
Chris Couper

Chris is correct, I can remember when a car title showed the engine # as the VIN (or identification) # in California. This is all well and good, until one purchases a car in which the engine has been swapped out. One of the State Patrol inspectors here in Washington State told me (tongue in cheek) when I was trying to straighten out the VIN for our TD that back in the early 50, one was lucky if they didn't use the number off one of the tires.

I have always had good luck taking a car in to the inspection station, along with the shop manual and (for the T series cars) the 'T' Series Handbook from the New England MG 'T' Register and sitting down with them and explaining that I need to straighten the title out to conform with today's standards. Only one time did I have to take out a bond on a MG - that was for a 1936 MGPB from Rhode Island, which at the time was a non title state. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

A bit more on Car No. http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/CarNumber.htm Bud
Bud Krueger

Dave: If you won't tell anyone else I'll let you in on a little secret. :-)

Even though my engine number plate matches my records, my actual block does not match and is a bitter higher than it should be.

My father threw a rod early on and engine swaps were very common in LA in the early 50's. But my car is registered to the engine number so they pulled the original tag and installed it on the swapped block.

Somewhere out there my original block may still exist in another TD.

Original engine no. 19988
Swapped engine no. 21906

Chris Couper

Good day again:

I have a 1948 TC6768 Oct. 08/48. It did not get to Vancouver, British Columbia, to the BMC Dealer until May of 1949. It was sold in June and registered as a 1949 car.

I was able to have the documentation altered, by the MVB in Victoria, by supplying the www.tregister.org Factory Record print out.

I understand it was a common practice, in some areas, to classify the car year by the date it was sold rather than from Factory shipping and import data.

Everything else was correct, on the original invoice, showing the car being accepted, by the dealer, from C&E upon its arrival in B.C.

By-the-by; I was able to receive previous, certified MVB RO documents for both the TC and TD.

The TC from its arrival, in Vancouver.

The TD from its first B.C. registration, by the original owner, in 1952. The 1950 and 51 registrations were in Nova Scotia, as the car was sent to Halifax. I was unable to obtain those pieces of data, from the NS MVB, as the records had been long destroyed. The original owner bought the TD new, in Dec. 1950, and drove it to Vancouver in the Winter of 1951-2.

Hope I didn't bore you too much ?
Jack Emdall, Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia, Canada
Jack Emdall

Bob - please contact me off-line. I may have a solution to your problem.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Chris-
Your secret is safe with me! What about the discrepancy between the number stamped in the block and the brass tag?

Cheers,
Roy
Roy Challberg

Facinating bit of automotive history guys. Thank you.

Tom
'54 TF VIN HDE43-5248 (in Oregon)
T Norby

The second line is "CXLU" does that have any meaning?
Bob McLeod TD 5618

Bob-
Check the tag again. I'm guessing it has an EXLU, which means a left hand drive, exported to North America.

Cheers, Roy

Roy Challberg

Bob McLeod - please contact me off-line.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

IMHO:
It's a crap shoot!
Depends not only on "state laws" but "whom" you deal with, as well as "what mood" they are in that day!
HDC46/7427 built October 1954
Came to me with a NJ tittle marked:
HDC4617427 1955

I wanted to get the vin # right.
Off to the BMV (Ohio) with:
The car (in the flesh)
NJ title
BMHT Certificate
Several books showing there was never a TF made with vin number 4617427!
Pictures of the vin plate.
Notarized out of state Ohio inspection paperwork stating vin is "HDC46/7427"

Several trips (to different BMV offices) and none would change the "1" to "/".

Finally hit on a lady that told me if I remove the vin plate and bring it inside for her to see she would correct it.
She was not allowed to walk outside and look at it on the car...even though she could see the car parked 20' away through her window.

Off to the hardware store for a small screw driver & pliers.
Took the plate off in front of her window, whilst she watch, and took it inside.

Done deal...corrected title in hand.
(Although I did nothing about "the year".)

I certainly wasn't going to be the one to show her a Moss catalog where (as we all know) you can buy a blank vin plate!

David Sheward

Good day all:

One final note and I shall cease involvement. It pertains to the "EXLU" found in the box area below the Car No.

Apparently that stood for Export LHD NA and must have included Canada. My TD was sent to Halifax, Nova Scotia and bears that stamping.

There is a rather detailed and a bit confusing writing, basically explaining these coded ciphers, published in the NEMGTR., Handbook, 1981, Points of Originality, Pages # 46 and 47.

It also refers to the EXLU designation as later becoming EXL/NA. With respect to this change, a further question is put forth. "Could it be that cars bound for Canada were not included in the earlier EXLU group" ?

I rather think they were, given my car's port of landing.

Cheers then all, time to cut the lawn.
Respectfully:
Jack Emdall, TD3191,EXLU, Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia, Canada
Jack Emdall

Jack: Testing out our new linking feature there was a recent post about this:

http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2013091816524216642
Chris Couper

David, I had just the opposite experience. I took the title and vin plate in to have my car transferred into my name and you would have thought I had robbed a bank. They could never grasp the concept the whole car was in pieces.
I finally went to the County Court Clerk and received a title in my name but it is a salvage title.
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

Rich,
I saw at least 7 different people at 4 different BMV offices. No 2 of them told me the same thing!
Lesson learned: Don't get the answer you want ...try another office.
Had one that was animate about my vin not having the "required number of digits".
There was no convincing this person that some old cars do not have a 17 number vin.
Maybe Bob found one of those?
David Sheward

This thread was discussed between 25/04/2014 and 28/04/2014

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