MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Water Pump Seal

About 5 years ago, I gave to somebody on the forum, my last water pump seal. I can recall only that they were from Texas.

So I have decided to rebuild my spare water pump this winter and need a seal, which I now believe are impossible to get.

Does anybody have a source of this precious water pump seal?

I am also interested in the increased-volume impeller. Again, does anybody know where this can be obtained?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Gord - "I am also interested in the increased-volume impeller. Again, does anybody know where this can be obtained?"
Contact Butch Taras at: mgyowner@yahoo.com regarding the water pumps - he does a lot of them. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

Hi Gordon and Dave,
I am assuming you refer to the later TF style pump? I have rebuilt several of these using a commonly available modern seal and adaptors I had made. I am babysitting at the moment but when I get a chance (hopefully later today) I will send you details. I will have to dig in the shed and find the part number of the seal and diagram of the adaptor. I have some spares but maybe I should have a big batch of adapters made!

I don't know about the high volume impeller. I run a supercharged race TC and a road TC and have not had any trouble with the original 4-blade unit (although I have seen an original 6-blade version). However, I would like to know if they are an advantage.

I think lots of people now don't bother with fixing old pumps because cheap Chinese units are available. I have never tried one because it is so easy to fix an original.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

I have attached an image of the seal I use and the adapter I designed and had had made in a batch a couple of years ago.

I would think the seal would be available world wide (see image for part number). If not, I could arrange to send some seals to someone in the USA. They were about $25.

A batch of adapters could be made in USA. I had mine made from "Viton" as this material has a high heat tolerance (at twice the cost). However, they could be made of Nitrile, brass or various other materials instead. Once again, I could arrange to have some made and sent to USA. I still have a couple of the first batch left. They were about $15.


When installing, I fit SEALED bearings (NTN 6301LLU/2AS). This means the felt seal and its circlip and washer at impeller end are not needed. (Retain the other washer next to the bearing as it is a spacer!) This in turn means that if the ridge on the shaft is deburred and the seal is deburred internally, a rebuild can be done without the annoying job of removing the impeller from the shaft!

Hope this is of some help.
Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

I obtained some replacement seals from Pump Seal Supplies 42 Gibson Avenue Padstow Australia. Their web site is www.pumpsealsupplies.com.au They had plenty in stock and I think they use the same seal in a refrigeration application. Don't forget when you fit a new mechanical seal the mating part, in my case a copper face at the back of the impeller may need a slight skim.
John...Sydney
John Walton

John,
Well done! That sounds like a simpler and better solution than mine!
Bob
R L Schapel

John - what is the part number for that seal at Pump Seal Supplies?

Thanks,

BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

John, Do you have a part number from Pump Seal Supplies?
Lew Palmer

No unfortunately I haven't the part number but just because you are good lot of blokes I will visit them this afternoon and obtain details for you including the price.
John...Sydney
John Walton

Thanks, John.
Lew Palmer

Just returned from Pump Seal Supplies. The part number for the water pump seal is H68-127C-AXN-XX ,F-12L.
Price is A$20.
Contact Hao Jiang on sales@pumpsealsupplies.com.au
Hope this helps.
John...Sydney
John Walton

john,
Are these replacement seals for the original pump seal???

keep your stick on the ice!
STEVE
Steve Wincze

Hello Steve. NO the seals are not a direct replacement for the original type seals. The OD of the seal is smaller than the ID of the water pump bore. Just a note, I've had two new chinese pumps come in for repair now with the seals leaking. Also they are using shielded not sealed bearings.
Butch
R Taras

Steve,
As I didn't have a sample of the original seal I took what came off my water pump which apparently been replaced sometime previously by a previous owner.
The outside diameter of the new seal is 33.46mm and
I used two single row fully sealed bearings type Nachi 6301-2NSE9.

John...Sydney
John Walton

Man, do I now regret letting my last seal go. Worse, most of the folks on this forum are trustworthy, and I had to get the one that let me down.

I have only seen one of the Chinese pumps. It seems that one has to grind one corner away, to get it to fit. Y'only get what y'pay fer!

Who's bright idea was this in the first place?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Gordon, that bit of grinding off the bottom corner has been going on for a long time, at least ten years. I think it began with some UK pumps. County, or something like that. I suspect that the Chinese are just copying a faulty casting. IMHO, the best solution is to send it to Butch and be done with it. Bud
Bud Krueger

Yes,, the grinding has had to be done with the County pumps,,, If you are going to use it as a spare pump, you must first do the grinding and fit it up.,, then pack it away in the car so it can be replaced when you are on a trip.

SPW
Steve Wincze

Well, I'm having signs that I may need to rebuild my pump. So I thought I'd rebuild my spare, but until I can find a seal, I'll have to be careful not to overheat my engine.

gac
Gordon A Clark

Hi Guys,
John, if the OD of your seal is 33.46 mm, that is virtually identical to the OD of the original seal and it sounds perfect! If slightly loose it could be fitted with silicon sealant. (I am assuming the OD you mention is not the OD of the flange but the press-in bit?)
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Bob, I just looked at a spare water pump body I have and checked the bore against the OD of the seal and to me it would be a nice press in fit. Unfortunately, I am unable to check the ID of the bore as it is too deep for my verniers to check as to what the interference fit would be so I placed the seal into the body and all seems OK.

John...Sydney
John Walton

John,

Are there any commercial markings on the seal? If so, might be worth chasing the supplier.

I'm determined to get to the bottom of this. I just find it hard to believe that Moss, Abingdon ,etc can't find a source.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Hi Guys,
It looks to me that the seal suggested by John Walton is perfect. I am in the process of having one sent to me so I can see one in the flesh to compare it with other options.

I visited my local seal dealer this morning and found a seal which also looks perfect .... (It might turn out to be the same as John's.) It is a HONDA seal (Couldn't get the Honda model from the salesman) part number BO3ABXSO127334 (He wasn't sure if "O"s are zeros or the letter! Paperwork to come will hopefully have this detail). It is virtually the same as the seal I suggested earlier but would not need the adapter because its OD looks the same as the original. It has a stainless steel OD so would need silicon or Loctite to be safe.

There is always the option I suggested above in the 4th post on this thread (with image). That is also a HONDA seal but needs an adapter ring.

I am sure Moss and Abingdon etc WILL stock seals once we have done the work of finding the best solution!!!

I will update if I learn anything new but in the mean time John's option or the Honda option should get T-Typers back on the road.

Yours oTCagonally, Bob
R L Schapel

Hi Gordon,
There are no marks on the seal except to say that there is an additional type of thick washer included in the "kit". It is white and looks as though it may be made from Teflon and sits in a small rubber (maybe Viton) cup type seal? It is to be used where the seal could be too short. In saying this the seals are made for other classic British cars and not specifically MG's but use this type of water pump.
The distance piece (washer) measures 0.904"OD X 0.548"ID X 0.159" thick.
The rubber seal has an OD of 0.992" an ID of 0.625" allowing for clearance of the impeller shaft and a thickness of 0.168".
Hope the above explanation is not too confusing.
I am unable to take a photograph at the moment for I am packed up ready to take a few days off up into the wine country.

I will be interested to find out how you get on Bob.
John...Sydney
John Walton

Hi Guys,

I just took delivery of the seal John Walton suggested on 3rd October. It is absolutely identical to the one I mentioned on 14th October despite the part numbers being different. It appears that they will just go straight in as John said. I agree because I have compared them to an unused (old stock) original I have in my bits.

The white washer (with rubber cup seal) John mentioned is a ceramic seat which is not needed in a T-Type as there is a copper seat on the shaft already.

I will try to get around to fitting one of these seals to a pump soon and will let you know how it goes.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

bOB,
OK,,, what are the numbers of the seal that you have found? so we can look up a supply over here??

Steve
Steve Wincze

Steve,
The only part numbers for the seal are what is indicated on the invoice. The number is H68-127C-AXN-XX,F-12.
Pump Seal Supplies of 42 Gibson Avenue, Padstow, New South Wales, Australia. They import the seals from China.
Pump Seal Supplies are just a small company here and it is unknown as to who in China supplies the seal to them.
John
John Walton

Steve,

Part number is BO3ABXSO127334. My contact was Paul Whelan from "AUSSEAL" 49A Stephen Terrace, St Peters, South Australia, 5069, Phone 08 83631677. He called it a Honda seal. Despite the different part number it is exactly the same seal as John's man sent me from Sydney. (H68-127C-AXN-XX,F12)

Thanks John for the tip which sent me back to the seal shop for the simpler solution. My old solution was perfectly OK but required an adapter.

When I get time I will try to elicit more info' from my supplier. I want to know if the "O"s are numbers or letters and which "Honda" the seal fits. That might help you chaps in USA and UK source them locally. However, if you have any trouble, I could buy up a batch and send them to someone over there. I can get a bulk price from my supplier and including postage overseas I would imagine they would not work out to be more than $25.

Maybe we should send a batch to Moss. I wonder if they are already sourcing the numbers John and I have quoted. In the 1980s I designed rear crank seal kits. I only sent a couple to USA because about a year later similar kits (although missing a point I believe is essential) were available from Moss.

Bob Schapel



R L Schapel

How much are they, Bob?

As I recall, the last time I was able to find the correct seal, it was around $20 Cdn - a few bucks more in OZ$, so don't rush out and buy a bunch of these things, 'till we've explored all the avenues.

You guys down under are pretty skillful at finding these solutions.

I've been on and off this project for over two years. B&G and Abingdon and Colin Stafford have contributed information, but we are all still without a water pump seal.

Below is a collection of images I've been able to collect. The seal that I gave away and still feel is the best of the lot, was produced by a company called Dilitex. Dilitex is shown as having an office in London, but I very much doubt that it is a manufacturing facility.

Dilitex Limited
DILITEX HOUSE
14 Cumberland Avenue
London NW10 7Ql

If anybody has anything to add, I'd be grateful to hear from you. Right now, all my Googling hasn't taken me anywhere.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A Clark

Hi Gordon,

They are $18 each from my supplier (providing you buy two, due to the $30 minimum sale policy). They are $16 each for three or more. Obviously price is not an issue. (Even if postage from OZ to Overseas is added)

I don't know anything about Diltex or Abbingdon seals but the others in your images are recognisable. The "Brand ??? from B&G" LOOKS the same as the ones suggested by John and me. The bottom left image is my original spare part seal bought 20 years ago and is obviously the same as Colin Stafford's. The seal to its right is my original smaller OD Honda seal with adapter fitted. (Adapter diagram is above it.)

So I think we do have a water pump seal. H68-127C-AXN-XX,F12 in Sydney, BO3ABXSO127334 in Adelaide (and I assume "Brand ???", from B&G, is the same).

I am trying to find the model Honda which they fit because part numbers for the same seal vary from Adelaide to Sydney so might be different again in USA and UK.

Bob
R L Schapel

Hi Guys,

My seal man got back to me and said he "has tried the exercise and they are not available in USA .... just an Australian thing". Maybe he just doesn't want to lose business to overseas??? I could post one to someone in USA (or wherever) and you could chase a local source. (Remember the "Brand ??? from B&G looks the same) or my offer of sending a batch to someone over there still stands.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

John can you give us an update at the Sydney T Type Tech day on Nov 9? It sure would be appreciated. Might be a wee bit far for you to travel Bob but you would be more than welcome! Thanks guys. Nice to see us Aussies coming to the rescue.
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Sure Peter, I will bring along any info I have on the day, however, you may have to remind me a couple of days before for I may forget.
John...Sydney
John Walton

Hi Guys,

I just fitted one of the seals we have been talking about, to a pump. It went in PERFECTLY so could be regarded as a direct replacement.

The OD was a nice firm press fit. I pressed it in using the vice and a large socket (1 and 1/8"). I used silicon sealant because the seal has a metal OD and the pump body is cast iron. The "height" of the seal is perfect too as the spring compressed nearly 1/8". I was told to put a drop of vegetable oil on the carbon face to eliminate any chance of it running dry when first run. (Although I can't see how that would happen!)

Cheers, Bob Schapel



R L Schapel

Bob,

I may take you up on your kind offer. Please stand by.

I have been working with Abingdon Spares, but they have been unable to find a supplier interested in making small quantities.

What I would like to do, is send you enough money and you can mail me several. In the meanwhile, I'll check with Abingdon.

I think we should really go off-line on this. You have my e-mail at the side, Pls contact me and we can proceed from there.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

This thread was discussed between 01/10/2014 and 29/10/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now