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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - What a Waste!

While seeking info on the TD clock I came across this from Carl Cederstrand written in 1997.

'This leads me to Rene's story. In 1974, I had a telephone conversation concerning chronometric spares with Rene Rufenach of Grenchen, Switzerland. During our conversation, Rene related his experiences in going to Smiths in England to purchase chronometric instrument spares. He was informed by someone at Smiths that they had recently taken their chronometric spares and buried them in an English dump under the supervision of a representative of the English taxing authorities. Smiths performed this ritual burial since their annual inventory tax on these parts exceeded what they realized from their annual sale of these parts. Their chronometric instruments were too reliable - they didn't consume spare parts! When lubricated, one hundred thousand miles is of little consequence to these instruments. Burying the parts generated a tax loss. So it goes. All that material and labor buried in the ground because of the usual brainless governmental incompetence and taxing stupidity ... How many pallets of chronometric spares now slowly return to their respective oxides in the cold damp soil of England?

Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

PETER
I know how you feel.such a waste.
In 1954 I was stationed at RCAF base St Hubert Quebec.
They were extending a runway and they dug down about 15' to create a solid base that would not frost heave in the spring. Buried down deep are at least 15 cast iron bathtubs filled with surplus Snap-On tools.
However some of those tools ended up in our tol boxes and I still have some whitworth Blue-point combo wrenches.
Sandy
Sanders

Hi Peter, recently I had an opportunity to purchase a pile of chronometric and Smiths clock spare parts. Much appears to be NOS so I guess some of these obsolete parts avoided the landfill. Presently I am refurbishing and repairing these gauges and clocks since I have the spares to do so.
Cheers, Hugh

H.D. Pite

Hugh I'd be very keen to get a set of odometer counters - not sure what the correct name is - for my flat faced TD speedo. I see a pile of them lurking in your pic. Can you contact me offline? As you've probably seen I've just won the war with my clock & the only remaining ugly item on my entire dash are these roller counters. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I've had an email suggesting that the original odometer wheels can be restored using a printed transfer with an adhesive backing. Nothing on this in the archive though. The pics that I have, taken from a variety of cars here, suggest that the numerals are white on black. See pic. The fourth wheel on the tripmeter is red on black.

Does anyone have any info on the details either of an existing supplier who produces a quality reproduction transfer that is indistinguishable from the originals, or details of the original colour & font? These are for the flat dial TD speedo with the chronometric mechanism like the one shown in the pic. This was taken at an M.G. Car Club event here in Sydney about 10 years ago. Obviously if I can source a perfect reproduction transfer of the colour & typeface then that would be the most economic way to proceed. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Peter, here is a picture of the odometer strips. They are some sort of printing on a metallic backing (as original). I purchased them off ebay some time ago and have not seen any since. I suspect these could be copied on a sheet with an adhesive backing. In fact I will look into this later today. Can you send me a private email at the address above?
Hugh Pite

H.D. Pite

Hi Hugh. You have mail. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I may have had some luck in finding a printer here in Sydney who can reproduce the original strips on a quality outdoor adhesive vinyl using a UV resistant ink. I'll let you know how I get on. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Poking around in my 'I better not throw that away box' I came across a couple of rusted original wheels with numerals in really sad condition. However when I removed the metal strip from one of them I was able to get the following dimensions:

Overall metal strip length is approx 2.500"
Length of printed section is approx 2.420"
Tab at each end is approx 0.040"
Metal strip thickness is 0.010"
Metal strip width is 0.160"
Join in strip is below the 5 & above the 6
Quantity is 8 white on black & 1 red on black.

Comparing my old strip to the ones in Hugh's pic indicates they are very similar. The major difference being the folded under section on mine is much smaller, but perhaps they were trimmed prior to being installed. It should be possible to make new strips as I now have the original dimensions as well as a vector file from a BBS contributor in the States showing the precise measurements, font & colour details of the strips. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter: I remember Al Moss mentioning that he had acquired some tooling from various T parts vendors because they no longer wanted to pay the tax on the molds etc that were not generating any revenue. So this issue of being taxed for something that COULD be of value but is not was/is pretty prevalent.

If it can be taxed, it will be taxed.
Christopher Couper

I am not an accountant but wonder if the story about Smiths burying redundant spare parts is correct. I don't think inventory would feature in the level of tax payable and am absolutely certain that the tax man would not supervise digging of a pit for the parts.

Jan T
J Targosz

A pic of the original strip is attached along with a partially removed strip. I've found a supplier in Melbourne of thin stainless sheet - 0.2 mm - which I'm hoping to trim to the size mentioned above. Also found a supplier who can print the strips on thin vinyl with an adhesive back. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Wow. That is one nasty looking wheel! Was the car used under water?
Christopher Couper

Just been stored in a cardboard box Chris in a none too weatherproof shed along with heaps of other well used & next to useless TD bits for about 45 years. The wheels in the speedo I'm using are fine except for the faded numbers. See pic. I'd also have preferred to use a transfer/decal with the correct numbers below the word Jaeger but couldn't find one. All four dials are the same colour though. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter,
The dials that my Dutch mate makes do show the number below the Jaeger Logo. This one is in KPH but he also does MPH
Regards
Declan

Declan Burns

Declan it's interesting that the KPH dial has the tripmeter above the odometer. I've not seen that before. All the flat faced dials on cars here are like the one in the pic I posted. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
I doubt it has anything to do with KPH and MPH. Perhaps early and late TC/TD-I don't really know as I have the dished dials.
Using what you sent me I made a draft. The further you zoom in the sharper the contours become.
I can refine it when the original strips you sent me arrive. I sent you the pdf earlier.
Regards
Declan

Declan Burns

Hi Declan. The numerals look really good but I just noticed that the location of the 1 is incorrect as it should be centered, not offset to the right. The tab at the top should also be shown at the bottom, equal/equal. As far as I know TD's just went from flat faced to dished, so I don't understand the relocated tripmeter/odometer. I'll keep an eye out for the pdf. Thanks mate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Will be corrected.
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Hi Declan, I don't think the speedometer you show is a chronometric gauge. It looks like a magnetic gauge either from a later TD or a Triumph TR3 (TR4?) with the dial face and pointer changed to resemble a TC or early TD speedometer. MOSS does this using a Triumph gauge but they do not change the pointer and it looks wrong without this change.
Hugh Pite
H.D. Pite

Hi Peter, is this what you need in the way of a reset? I can probably find one of those tiny machine screws that attach it to the speedo.
By the way I now have a hundred or so to the odometer number strips printed out on several pages of a material with adhesive back. I propose to stick each page to a thin metal backing and then carefully cut out the strips to the correct size. I will keep you informed.
Hugh Pite

H.D. Pite

G'day Hugh. That looks like it. I'll almost certainly need the tiny screw. Re the strips, I'm working on the same thing but I'd be keen to see your results as well. The backing I'm using is a 316 stainless sheet 0.2 mm thick with the numerals printed on very thin vinyl, though both elements are yet to arrive here. Can you email me at pjbm at bigpond dot com? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The 0.2 mm 316 stainless arrived today. This can be accurately cut into strips using a stout pair of craft scissors once the correct width is scribed. The only difficulties being ensuring that the strips are exactly the correct width & in bending back the approximately 1 mm tab at either end. I can't think of an appropriate tool to do this, so I've yet to solve this problem. Would have been easier if I had a bit more length to play with. The thickness @ 0.2 mm seems to be spot on & is easy to work, with the same tensile strength as the original, but I won't know for sure until the vinyl is applied. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Far far easier to work with is Litho plate which was a waste product in the printing industry up to the end of the 1980's. I used to use it for aluminium panelling on my model aircraft and still have a good few sheets in the cellar.
I have measured it at 0.15mm. Bending the tab is simple using an old school "Bohemian" one sided razor blade.(Google it)
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

The numeral strips arrived today. About to test fit these onto the SS strips. See pic. I have enough to do 7 cars so if anyone wants a set of 8 black on white & 1 red on white please get in touch. pjbm at bigpond dot com. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter,
The original strip arrived this morning so I can correct the graphics.
Your vinyl stickers look good. Can you not just apply them without using the stainless steel strip?

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Hi Declan. Probably, however when you put them side by side, the difference between the new & the original numerals is readily apparent. I have been offered some NOS strips from a regular local contributor to this forum who recently sold his TF, so I'll now be using those. The idea of having the strips reprinted on vinyl is sound however & as the vinyl is very thin they could probably be stuck over the top as you suggest. Once I remove the wheels from the speedo & apply the NOS strips, I'll post a pic.

I'll send you across a set to compare with the original strip that I sent you. (I'll also include a sheet of the 16 Triplex TD windscreen templates. As advised a year or so ago, these can't be used because the width of the lettering is too narrow to permit either acid or grit to pass through. A shame really as they are totally accurate in every other respect. They are indeed a thing of beauty though when you hold them up to the light). Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Trip reset arrived today & I plan to test fit it tomorrow. It does appear to be about 8 mm shorter than the original however this shouldn't pose a problem. Also received the NOS numeral strips, (thanks Graham), so I'll get onto that tomorrow as well. Also try & get to the Post Office too Declan. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks Peter,
My mate who makes the dials also has done the strips.
He just sent this photo. He has also done them for Jaguar cars.
Regards

Declan Burns

This one's for you Hugh. My recent research suggests that there appear to be two possible colours for the TD/TF tripmeter 10ths wheel, either red on black or orange on black. Do you or does anyone have the definitive answer to this question? Could the TD originally have had orange on black & the TF red on black?

Maybe Matthew or Rob could shed some light? Joe as you have an unmolested TD what is the colour of your 10ths wheel? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Speedo stripped, cleaned, oiled, NOS odometer & trip meter strips fitted along with the new trip reset from England. I reused the original orange 10ths wheel as it looked good enough beside the new white on black wheels. About to test the counters on the bench prior to reassembly with the chronometric mechanism which I left intact. I'll then reset the location of the 30 mph contact using Hugh's method above. Without a 'how to' it took quite some time to nut out but once the mystery of wheel removal was solved it became a relatively simple if not fiddly task, but there are a few traps.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

The TF 10ths wheel was originally Red number on black background.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Thanks Rob. Bench tests really well so now all that remains is to adjust the 30 mph contact to 70 mph & resolder the connection between the mechanism & the case. Hugh's details on the method used are on the other thread. Pic from Hugh shows a speedo mechanism with the chronometric unit removed. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Pic of speedo mechanism after replacing the odometer & tripmeter strips. Looks just like a bought one! I'm happy. Thanks to Hugh Pite for his invaluable advice & assistance & also to Graeme Evans for supplying the NOS strips. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

I always thought both the TD and TF had the red 1/10's numbers. The orange I believed was just fading over time, although the red could be classified as a bright red that is orangish. What used to be call Chinese Red.
Christopher Couper

You may well be right Chris. I have a couple of red wheels but the colour is not all that different. However as the trip meter set was a pain to assemble - fitting the spring was a real challenge - I'm leaving well enough alone. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter, here are some pictures of the odometer wheels on a TF, later TD and an early TD. There are no red wheels and all appear to have very nearly the same orange colour.
Cheers, Hugh

H.D. Pite

TF

H.D. Pite

Early TD

H.D. Pite

Lazarus (TD10855) definitely has orange numbers. Bud
Bud Krueger

There is a pic in an article by A Rhodes on speedos & shows what he describes as an early speedometer. The 10ths certainly appear to be orange. Definitely not red. This is a pic from a Triumph possibly from the early 60's. I don't know how to post it here as I have saved it as a word doc. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 15/10/2017 and 12/11/2017

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