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MG TD TF 1500 - Worn rear hub splines in wire wheeled TF?

My TF1500 has now travelled ca. 11.000 miles since it was restored. Lately I have noticed a small 'clunk' from the LH rear wheel when starting off. With this wheel off the ground I register a ca 1/2 inch movement/slop between the back plate and the brake drum. I have been searching the archives and it seems I should be concerned about drive shaft issues, but then, most of the info I have found may not apply to wire wheels?


I am going to the EEOTY in Denmark in August, so now is the time to sort this out. I would really appreciate some guidance on how I should proceed to explore this issue. Thank you!

Regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Hi Jan, I'm sure others will chime in with things to do or watch for, as this is not unusual, and I thought it happened more easily with wire wheels.
In my case I found that one thing that seemed to be happening was that the hub of the wheels, in the area that the spoke ends are, was contacting the ends of some of the studs, and some of their thin nuts, that secure the brake drum to the flange. I ground the studs off shorter, and rounded some of the nuts' corners. That helped, but I still hear the clunk sometimes.
I think the clunk also can be caused by loose spring shackles, but that's a slightly different problem.
Let us know what cures your problem.
Al
54 TF "Emma"
A W Parker

With wire wheels, one has to realize that both splines take wear. To just change the axle hub, is only part of the story.

One has to change the hub on the wheel. From earlier enquiries, it appears that the cost of new wheel hubs comes close to buying a whole new wheel.

The only place that I know of, where only the wheel hub can be purchased, is from Motor Wheel Service in the UK (http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=1).

I believe they actually manufacture the splined hubs.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Jan,
I would strongly recommend that if you buy new hubs for the rear end [The easier ones to replace :)] get new wheels as well. IF you only change one of these parts the older bits will just accelerate the wear on the new parts. Also do check the 6 studs that bolt the hub to the drum. They too have small splines to seat them in the hub and on my TD this defeated me for several months trying to find the source of the clunk.
If you buy a new hub also get the 6 studs and nuts with the 3 lock washers as well. They will need to be pressed onto the hub for a secure fit.


R. D. Jones

Hello gentlemen and thank you for your responses.

My wheels and hubs are new and have no slop, but I see a ca 1/2 inch movement/slop between the back plate and the brake drum, until the slack is taken up and the differential is engaged. Prop shaft is new (Ford Sierra gearbox) Could this be looseness of the large center nut inside the splined hub?

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan
Do you mean an (approx) 1/2" movement rotationally between the back plate and the drum?
i.e. As per slop in the rear axel, pinion gear, wheel splines, prop shaft and Gearbox?
With one rear wheel on the ground that could be highly possible. A lot of minor play will be added together doing that.
I can't say I have actually measured my TD rear axel slop but I would think it would be around this order of motion.
It does not however make a klunk when starting off though... Or under hard braking. That was fixed with the new hub studs.

Rod
R. D. Jones

You are spot on Rod, that is my issue. Trying to understand where the clunk comes from. Will try to find some time in between my salaried job and the Honey summer do list tonight to try to locate the point of sloppiness.

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan,

Just went out and checked my rear wheel on the TD.
It too rotates about 1/2" fore and aft with the other wheel on the ground - I would say that is perfectly normal and not a problem.

Now about the clunk you hear? That would be the part I would worry about.

In my particular case it was more of a "Clock" noise and only heard when first accelerating away or under hard braking. I could not reproduce this noise when the wheel was jacked up or with it removed.
Everything seemed really tight.
I lived with this for almost a couple of years but did not drive the TD that much during this time.
What finally solved the issue was purchasing some new wire wheels and deciding at that time to fit new rear hubs as well. They take most of the punishment.

When I took the brake drum off the original hub on the driver’s side (RHD) some of the studs were loose enough to drop out of the hub flange.
Then it all made sense.
The brake drum was rocking back and forth on the studs under extreme pressure. As in hard acceleration or braking. The nuts were tight and the locking tabs were fitted.
However the small splines on these studs designed to hold them in place when pressed into the hub flange had crushed down allowing a very small amount of motion. Resulting in a "clock" noise as the brake drum moved.
The studs need to be pressed into the Hub flange and not pulled in with the nut. The small stud will just stretch and brake if you do. It is interesting to note just how soft they are?? I got my local garage to do the job in the end.
Everything is now working as it should - no noise from the back end and yes there is some rotational slop in the drive train back to the gearbox. I think that is perfectly normal.
Hope you find your clunk noise and it is nothing bad. Would seriously suggest finding it sooner than later though. Honey do list permitting :)

Rod

R. D. Jones

Thank you for your advice on this. I have looked through the rear wheel drive throughly by now with the help of a skilled friend. Seems like everything is fine and that the half inch slop is normal. Drum studs are not moving. He also said that I am over the top sensitive to what he considered a normal working sound from the rear drive.

Tentative diagnosis: Acoustic paranoia?

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Glad to hear it Jan :)

No doubt you will know every noise on your TF and with time any new noise will make itself more than obvious.

Also try not to develop the "Oil Pressure eye" tic.
You will catch yourself repeatedly flicking your eyes over to where the Oil Pressure gauge is - even when you are not in the car and just talking to people.

The other issue you may encounter is shouting at everyone when you first get to your destination.
But that wears of pretty soon. :)

Happy Driving and enjoy your trip.

Rod
R. D. Jones

This thread was discussed between 07/07/2014 and 10/07/2014

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