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MG TD TF 1500 - XPAG Oil Pump rebuild

Hi All,

I have an Oil Pump Rebuild Kit from Moss that says to use a piece of tubing and a bolt to remove the driven gear shaft.

The new shaft certainly has a threaded hole in one end, which would allow the above procedure, but the shaft in the pump body does not have this threaded hole.

It is possible that a PO installed the shaft "upside down", but I don't know that for a fact.

Before resorting to clamps and brute force (which will no doubt damage the shaft at a minimum) I thought I should post the question:

"Is there a better way to remove the shaft, and how much pressure/tension will be required?"

Thanks in advance of any and all suggestions.

JR
JR Ross

Hello JR. I assume that you are talking about the shaft that is in the block. Does the old one have a groove(line) about 1/2" long on the outer end? If it does that it was installed incorrectly and the end with threaded hole was pounded into the block. The shaft is an .0005 to .001 interferance fit it takes a lot of pressure to remove it. The threaded hole is there so you can get something to grab to be able to pull it out. Be sure to pull perpendicular to the oil pump mounting flange so as to not crack the cast iron.

Butch
R Taras

Here's a picture of how I pulled my correctly fitted shaft. Admittedly it's of no use for you because I agree with what Butch writes.

Willem van der Veer

Hello again JR. When you put the new one in be sure the grooved end goes into the block. The groove is to allow any oil or air from being trapped under the shaft. Also be sure to check that the shaft is perpendicular to the surface so the idler gear will sit correctly in the pump and not be cocked. Also check the end float of the gears in the pump body they should be .0015 to .003. Sometimes the gears wear into the body at a different rate and after the pump body is ground flat each gear has to be ground to fit.

Butch
R Taras

Hi JR, Perhaps the best way to tackle the problem would be to try and tap a new thread in the old shaft if it is not too hard and even heat it up to anneal it if that is the case. You could then follow the directions to remove it as per the instructions provided. This way it will pull it out nice and straight.
Regards Rob.
R Browne

Hi JR and Rob. I think that the shaft is hard as it is a bearing surface. I'd need to get into the garage and check with a file. You may need to take a dremel style tool and grind a groove around the shaft about 1/4" from the end and wide enough to get a split block or bearing puller to clamp the shaft then pull on that. I've attached a pic of the quick and dirty puller I made up to get one out. You can also see the wear on the shaft.

Butch

R Taras

Hey All,

Thanks for the info. I suspect that the shaft is installed backwards, and is going to be a real joy to get out. Unfortunately, the shaft is as hard as a bearing race, so drilling and tapping would be a real job.
I'm not sure yet, how I'll extract it, but I suspect a lot of "brute force" and destruction of the shaft will be involved.
I will report back with results.

Thanks again.
JR Ross

Maybe you could try welding a nut to the end of the shaft and then use the normal method to pull it out. I know the shaft is hard but a good welder may be able to help you.
Max Irvine

I just had a look at a spare shaft I have. there is no hole at all in the end that goes into the block so if you are looking at a plain end then it is definitely the wrong way round.

The shaft is 53mm or 2 1/8" long with at least 20mm deep of M8 x 1.0 mm pitch tapped hole.

If all else fails and the shaft sticks out of the hole by at least 35mm you could cut it off flush (very carefully with a cut-off wheel) and then put a bolt in the exposed tapped hole to get it out. This would be a last resort.
Max Irvine

Hey Max,

I've just done some measuring and calculations, and I think you have the best solution.
If my math is right, and that's always doubtful, the threaded hole (if it is in the block) should be exposed by cutting off the shaft that is visible. That should allow a bolt to be inserted.
I am always amazed at the brain power available on these boards.

Thanks again to all who responded.
JR Ross

JR, I hope it works for you. Be very careful that you don't damage the face of the engine where the pump bolts up. Try leaving about 3 mm of the shaft protruding. I have a small belt grinder which would then be able to grind the shaft down further if needed. You may have access to one of these excellent tools as well. Good luck. Cheers, Max
Max Irvine

Just had a thought that maybe the shaft is a non genuine and does not have a tapped hole at either end, that would make life very difficult. Don't go with the cut off method unless the shaft has the longitudinal groove that Butch Taras mentioned.
Max Irvine

I wonder if welding a grade 8 bolt to the end, threads sticking up, and then using a tube, washer, and nut would work. I think I might consider grinding the head markings off so it would sit perfectly on the top of the shaft. I'd be a little reluctant to cut the shaft as you're then limiting your options.

Good luck!
JE Carroll

Definitely agree with trying the welded nut idea first! For that matter, why not try seeing if you can turn it using vice grips...if so you'll know it will come out eventually.
Gene Gillam

I agree with the welding of a nut on the end. I mentioned that earlier in this thread.
Max Irvine

To all who are interested,
I cut the shaft off about 1/2" above the face of the block, and there was the "other end" of the threaded hole.
A little cleaning of the exposed threads, insertion of a bolt and washer , on a piece of tubing with an ID larger than the OD of the shaft, some light tightening of the bolt, and out popped the shaft.
Thanks again to all those who responded
JR Ross

Glad it worked out for you, JR.
Gene Gillam

I'm relieved it worked without damage.
Max Irvine

This thread was discussed between 07/01/2014 and 16/01/2014

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