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MG TD TF 1500 - XPAG Twincam at last??

Hello,

Today I photographed this Twincam prototype XPAGengine!

A small batch of these may become available in the Netherlands soon.

If you are interested please sent an email to:

erikvanhardeveld ed online.nl (@ for ed)

Erik

Erik vanHardeveld

And another pic

Erik vanHardeveld

Amazing! Thanks for not posting these pictures two days ago.

Do you have pictures of the other side?
Willem van der Veer

Hi Erik,

Doesn't the distributor obstruct the centre two ports?

Jan T
J Targosz

Hello Willem,

No, it is not a joke!
I will ad some more pics.

Erik

Erik vanHardeveld

And another pic

Erik

Erik vanHardeveld

And one of the inletside
Erik vanHardeveld

Now with the pic

Erik vanHardeveld

how to close bonnet?
what is purpose?
efh Haskell

Exciting... Curious about the interference issue at the distributor. Can you enquire further about that?
Alex Waugh

Erik
The email address does not work!

Cost?
What is included?

I have been thinking about this for years now.

I had a 1961 Fiat Spyder with a 1500 CC OSCA DOHC engine.
In its very detuned state it still produced 125 HP @6500 RPM. It was capable of many more RPMS.
I think you would be pushing the XPAG to get 6500, requiring a new carnk and Con Rods, still I would expect this should yeild 100 HP.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I think this is a late "april fool" prank.

Tom
T Norby

Hello,

First, this is NOT a "late april fool" joke.

It is a serious project from a man who is a known expert in the Netherlands on machining racebikes etc. and also owns a blown TC.

He is going to do my MG TA/QA XPAG engine with a crossflow head and a frontmounted Volumex.

He made this Twincamhead as a prototype, and I've asked him if he plans to make a small batch of these.

He said he could do so and that he thinks they will cost something in the region of 4 to 5 thousand euros each.

He asked me to find out if there are people interested in it.

For the moment I can only keep those interested informed on the progress he is making; no obligations either way.

The engine has not run yet and for instance the interference of the distributer with the exhaust manifold has to be solved with a heatshield (it is a crossflow head)

So I will keep everybody who is interested informed; hopefully this prototype will run in the course of this year.

If you want to follow this project sent me an email.
(erikvanhardeveld@online.nl). I will confirm your email after I received it.

I know this has been tried before since the fifties and perhaps someone somewhere is trying to do the same at this moment.
No problem.

I'll be glad to answer any additional questions you may have

erik van hardeveld
Erik vanHardeveld

EFH,,
Purpose ????????? more power !!!


I've heard that these were being developed, but it was down in Australia,, or New Zealand,,

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Here is one of the sites,,
http://www.stevebakermg.co.uk/apps/blog/show/2484957-runyan-twin-cam-mg-xpag-engine-
STEVE WINCZE

Maybe Tom Lange can update us about the resurrection of the Runyon head?
MG LaVerne

Terry Peddicord continues to chip away at the Runyan project - he has had multiples of most (if not all) of the castings made, and now just needs to find the time to supervise the final machining of his prototype.

He has changed jobs and is flat out, but I know this is something about which he is serious. As anyone who develops something like this, it takes LOTS of time!

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

There was a man in Australia that had done some serious work on casting new XPAG blocks but utilixing MGB crankshafts.
Any new info is welcome.
Sandy
ss sanders

Sandy,
While both ventures are advantagious,,, I believe the blocks would be much more worthwhile,,, every year there are fewer and fewer blocks available.. and the cranks would be less expensive also,,,

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

While cool, on a 3 bearing crank motor I just can't see the advantage of adding more revs. is it 4v or 2v? oops, I see, 2v. So then I really have to ask what the advantage would be. And that exhaust is sure gonna fry that dizzy. Unless it's flowing the other way, which it might be, not sure. Seems the logical thing would have been to put intake on the dizzy side and keep exhaust on the left. Just a matter of cam timing.
L Rutt

Well done Erik !!!!
Now this would be a nice engine for the TD chassis I bought from you last year.....8^)
I have a feeling the twincam head is designed and built in the North of our country (uut Grunningen) ???
If so: I'm interested. The constructor's work is very impressive...
Cheers,
Nick (TD3232)
Nick Herwegh

I believe the exhaust sould be on the Right side, where it is now and the intake on the left side.
I woulld think you could route an intake manifold around the distributer or even go to COP.

I have also been thinking about COP.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

From Steves link, it does look like the intake is on the distributer side.
The distributer could benefit from a cap wit the wires comming out the side.

My OSCA twin cam had such a cap.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Hello,

Just to let you know: it is a crossflow head, with the exhaust on the distributorside and the inlet on the other side.
This may not be the way standard XPAGengines have it, but it is the logical consequense of a crossflow.

Concerning the interference of the distributor with the exhaust manifold: we placed a distributor on the engine for the photo, and afterwards we noticed, that it is about an inch to high in the hole of the engine.
Of course a special exhaust manifold has to be manufactured with enough clearance ( and a heatshield ) towards the distributor.
Also a distributorcap with the cables to the side will have to be used.

Hope this clarifies things.

Erik
Erik vanHardeveld

Hi Erik;
Is it also a Hemi-head?
Will there be domed pistons?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Why don't you fit a can position sensor and ECU rather than a distributor.



Jan T
J Targosz

I can't see where I would have room in a TF for this?
David Sheward

Hello,

Thank you all for your input.

I expect, that the discussion on the exhaust interfering with the distributor has ended; indeed the suggestion of an electronic system may be a good one.

On the topic of WHY Steve is obviously right: more power, and how to close the bonnet, we did not think about that, if necessary a modification must be made or perhaps without one??
At the circuit anyway!

It is a Hemi head and the choice of pistons is up to you: do you want a high compression or a low one?

Oh, and Jim: I already received some emails on the emailadress above, so I suppose it must work.

I hope I gave the answers you want; further suggestions or questions are welcome.

MGreetings

Erik van Hardeveld
Erik vanHardeveld

Jim B,

What does COP stand for?

Thanks.

Jud
J K Chapin

Hi Jud;

COP = Coil on Plug.

Each plug had an individual coil mounted on the plug.
There are no High Voltage wires and each coil has 4X as much time to charge up. Each coil fires 1/4 of the number of times.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Wow! Looks like his quite far along on this project. I think I can shed some light on this project. The cylinder head looks to be an early Alfa Romeo, possibly a Giulietta 1300? I am not an expert on early Alfas but I can spot their designs. Still a very cool and noble effort to put the cams where they belong and MG originally wanted them. Certainly a much faster way to achieve the beloved DOHC result than the approach I am taking. Currently I have parts to build about ten copies of the original Runyan design, but am still working on getting all the castings machined, not an inexpensive undertaking and certainly not for the faint of heart. About the only down side I can see is the scarcity of original Alfa Giulietta heads, as they are a little thin on the ground on this side of the pond. I wish the Dutch gentlemen working on this exciting project much luck and success.
Cheers, Terry P.
Benito Travato

Eric,

Jan Targosx has an excellent idea.

"Why don't you fit a cam position sensor and ECU rather than a distributor?"

The heat of the exhaust in close proximity to the distributor, is bound to present problems.

A hemispherical combustion chamber allows for larger valves. In theory, this will promote better breathing, but is offset to a small degree by the valves being heavier.

A very interesting project. I think this is the same guy who showed his crossflow XPAG head at Stoneleigh a few years back. I was able to get a couple of pix of it.


Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.



Gordon A Clark

Hello,

A reaction:

Terry Perrycord: Thank you for your kind wish; I sincerely wish you the same.
Keep me informed on your progress.

Gordon: Right I am building a Qtype lookalike with a cross - flow head. Hopefully it will run at the end of the year.

Thank you all for your input.

I'll keep those interested informed.

Erik van Hardeveld

Erik vanHardeveld

Erik,

This is a bit off-topic, but worthy of mentioning.

That is fantastic news. I doubt few of the readers of this column understand the significance of Erik's project.

The R-Type MG preceded the Lotus Elan by almost 30 years with its unique design of the 'backbone' chassis (see pic). This picture of the bare chassis is of one being fabricated by a Scot (sorry, don't have any details, but I'm sure the MMM Register can help, if needed).

It was designed by Hubert Charles and was Abingdon's final full race car. Only 10 were produced and of course, they rarely change hands. For more information, just Goggle 'R-Type MG'.

So, press on Erik. I will be anxious to see how things turn out.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.


Gordon A Clark

Hello,

Thank you all for your input, I will discuss your suggestions with Jan Roelofs the man who builds this.

Jan runs a machiningshop for racingbikes etc here in Holland. He owns a MG TC and works on a MGTD special. He has developed this dohc head, and is also working on a cross-flow head, also for an XPAG engine.

The dohc head on the photo’s is a prototype, that hopefully will run at the end of this summer.

He has asked me to find out if there would be any interest for this in the MG T-type scene and if so he plans to produce a small batch.
He thinks, that the cost of one would be in the region of 4-5 thousand euro’s.
Please let me know if any of you is interested (no obligations yet).

MGreetings,

Erik van Hardeveld

p.s. I am building a MG TA-Qa special with a crossflowhead, that I bought in England from Andy King. Jan Modified this for me and it give him the idea to build one himself. Later came the dohc-head.
Erik vanHardeveld

This thread was discussed between 03/04/2014 and 29/04/2014

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